In the Madhouse
When I was Judas or was Cain,
I suffered. How could I be clean?
How could I face my friends again?
I splintered like a broken screen.
“I’ve got no strings,” I sang, and all the crowd
was entertained. “I want to be a boy,”
I told them: strange thought for a wooden toy.
To have no strings – to dance. I was not proud.
I reached my floor in Job. The two of us
sat in the dust. The bright sun went its round.
We fetched the dead; we brought them all. The bound.
The unremembered. The notorious.
Today, the rabbi spoke of pain. I said
how knitted Irish sweater patterns trace
each harbor, so a fisherman who’s dead
can travel home. Thus, our whole human race
does what it can. If God once visited
our midst, perhaps we stand in God’s embrace
to this day, each of us. We turn our head
from hurt sometimes. God won’t, and that is grace.
In the Madhouse
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CalebPerry
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This isn't a bad poem at all. Given that it has plenty of biblical references, I'm not getting from it what I otherwise would (if I knew all those biblical stories). But I understand that the poem is really about madness, so perhaps the stories don't matter as much.
Referring to yourself as a wooden toy in the second stanza came out of the blue.
Reaching your floor (hitting bottom?) in Job would be more meaningful if I knew anything about Job. I'm not sure who "the two of us" are in that stanza -- the you that's a toy and the you who isn't a toy?
The final stanza has more meaning to me than the initial stanzas. Grace is a "God who won't turn his head from hurt" -- I like that. I like the little story about the fisherman's sweater. The final stanza is the best part, in my view.
Let me tell you what the Seth Material said about Judas. The man he kissed wasn't Jesus, but another man, a somewhat deranged man who imagined himself to be the messiah. (At that time, a lot of people were anticipating the arrival of the messiah, and there were quite a few people who imagined themselves to be the messiah.) Thus, Jesus was not the one who was arrested and crucified. Jesus then survived his death, and was able to appear to others to have been resurrected. Seth said that Jesus was well aware that his actions were establishing a new religion and initiating a new era for mankind. Seth said that enlightened individuals don't martyr themselves. There is another interesting tidbit about Jesus I'll tell you later.
Back to your poem: I think it's good, especially the ending. People who feel a strong draw to God (like me and undoubtedly you too) will like the poem more than others.
Referring to yourself as a wooden toy in the second stanza came out of the blue.
Reaching your floor (hitting bottom?) in Job would be more meaningful if I knew anything about Job. I'm not sure who "the two of us" are in that stanza -- the you that's a toy and the you who isn't a toy?
The final stanza has more meaning to me than the initial stanzas. Grace is a "God who won't turn his head from hurt" -- I like that. I like the little story about the fisherman's sweater. The final stanza is the best part, in my view.
Let me tell you what the Seth Material said about Judas. The man he kissed wasn't Jesus, but another man, a somewhat deranged man who imagined himself to be the messiah. (At that time, a lot of people were anticipating the arrival of the messiah, and there were quite a few people who imagined themselves to be the messiah.) Thus, Jesus was not the one who was arrested and crucified. Jesus then survived his death, and was able to appear to others to have been resurrected. Seth said that Jesus was well aware that his actions were establishing a new religion and initiating a new era for mankind. Seth said that enlightened individuals don't martyr themselves. There is another interesting tidbit about Jesus I'll tell you later.
Back to your poem: I think it's good, especially the ending. People who feel a strong draw to God (like me and undoubtedly you too) will like the poem more than others.
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If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
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If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Hi Caleb,
I’m glad you enjoyed the poem! You are quite right, it has its share of Bible references. As you say, madness is the unifying theme, the Bible stories are just what was in the mad narrator’s mind at the time.
Yup, Pinocchio! I thought that might come out of the blue. When mad, I felt absolutely without free will – I was a marionette in God’s hands. Hence, I’ve got no strings, more of a hope than a reality actually.
Job defines suffering in the Old Testament. God and Satan make a deal that Satan can test God’s servant Job, whose friends say to him, when he’s lost everything, “Curse God and die.” But he refuses. It’s a weird book. The two of us is Job and me, I hope that makes sense on rereading!
Glad you like the final stanza! it’s got the sweaters, and that definition of grace, lots to like. As far as I know, that sweater story is true. Those white woolen sweaters have a pattern for every fishing village.
That is very interesting about Judas. Enlightened individuals don’t martyr themselves is a powerful argument. It’s also true that lots of people were anticipating the Messiah in those days. Judas is a tricky character all around.
You’re quite right, this poem will speak less to atheists, I would think. But actually, it’s about psychosis, a very human thing. I would hope people will respond to that.
Cheers,
John
I’m glad you enjoyed the poem! You are quite right, it has its share of Bible references. As you say, madness is the unifying theme, the Bible stories are just what was in the mad narrator’s mind at the time.
Yup, Pinocchio! I thought that might come out of the blue. When mad, I felt absolutely without free will – I was a marionette in God’s hands. Hence, I’ve got no strings, more of a hope than a reality actually.
Job defines suffering in the Old Testament. God and Satan make a deal that Satan can test God’s servant Job, whose friends say to him, when he’s lost everything, “Curse God and die.” But he refuses. It’s a weird book. The two of us is Job and me, I hope that makes sense on rereading!
Glad you like the final stanza! it’s got the sweaters, and that definition of grace, lots to like. As far as I know, that sweater story is true. Those white woolen sweaters have a pattern for every fishing village.
That is very interesting about Judas. Enlightened individuals don’t martyr themselves is a powerful argument. It’s also true that lots of people were anticipating the Messiah in those days. Judas is a tricky character all around.
You’re quite right, this poem will speak less to atheists, I would think. But actually, it’s about psychosis, a very human thing. I would hope people will respond to that.
Cheers,
John
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CalebPerry
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You did clarify a couple points. The question is, will other people understand it without you there to clarify?
The other tidbit from the Seth Material that I didn't mention (I was tired of typing before) was that the soul force of the Christ entity was too evolved to be incarnated as one individual, so Christ incarnated as three individuals -- Jesus, John the Baptist, and Paul or Saul (not sure why he has two names). According to Seth, the latter made mistakes -- specifically, blaming the Jews for Jesus's death -- that he will reincarnate to correct mid-century). Paul or Saul was the one who started the whole business of vilifying the Jews (despite the fact that Jesus himself was a Jew). Paul was the one who founded the Catholic church, right?
The other tidbit from the Seth Material that I didn't mention (I was tired of typing before) was that the soul force of the Christ entity was too evolved to be incarnated as one individual, so Christ incarnated as three individuals -- Jesus, John the Baptist, and Paul or Saul (not sure why he has two names). According to Seth, the latter made mistakes -- specifically, blaming the Jews for Jesus's death -- that he will reincarnate to correct mid-century). Paul or Saul was the one who started the whole business of vilifying the Jews (despite the fact that Jesus himself was a Jew). Paul was the one who founded the Catholic church, right?
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Hi Caleb,
Interesting stuff. So, Saul was persecuting early Christians until Jesus appeared to him (Saul fell off his horse) and converted him to become Paul. He then gets a whole book of the NT, his Epistles (e.g. the faith, hope, and charity speech used at weddings), and he is important in the Book of Acts as well. One can argue he created what we call Christianity today. As you say, Jesus was Jewish, and never said he was starting a new religion other than reforming Judaism. Paul and the Gospel of John do that heavy lifting.
The first Pope was the Apostle Peter, who was martyred in Rome. One might as well say he founded the Catholic Church.
I'm glad to hear my comments clarified the poem a bit. You raise an interesting point: how much will readers get without that? I think Judas and Cain are well-known enough, in general terms, to make my meaning OK. The patience of Job is an expression you may have run into. I'm not sure who will catch the Pinocchio reference, but there is always Google, and then folks will get that Disney song! The rest of the poem I think is OK.
CHeers,
John
Interesting stuff. So, Saul was persecuting early Christians until Jesus appeared to him (Saul fell off his horse) and converted him to become Paul. He then gets a whole book of the NT, his Epistles (e.g. the faith, hope, and charity speech used at weddings), and he is important in the Book of Acts as well. One can argue he created what we call Christianity today. As you say, Jesus was Jewish, and never said he was starting a new religion other than reforming Judaism. Paul and the Gospel of John do that heavy lifting.
The first Pope was the Apostle Peter, who was martyred in Rome. One might as well say he founded the Catholic Church.
I'm glad to hear my comments clarified the poem a bit. You raise an interesting point: how much will readers get without that? I think Judas and Cain are well-known enough, in general terms, to make my meaning OK. The patience of Job is an expression you may have run into. I'm not sure who will catch the Pinocchio reference, but there is always Google, and then folks will get that Disney song! The rest of the poem I think is OK.
CHeers,
John
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CalebPerry
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Oh, I didn't listen to the Disney song. Also, if your readers read the poem in the book, they won't have the Disney song to listen to.
Jesus never said he was founding a new religion; Seth said that he knew he was. And that makes sense. If Jews accepted that the messiah had arrived, Judaism would have been transformed after that. I'm not sure that anyone expected, however, that only some Jews would accept the new messiah. To this day, the Jews are still waiting for the messiah to come. (Perhaps I should be capitalizing that word.)
Your knowledge of the Bible is remarkable. Are you sure you're not a Christian?
Jesus never said he was founding a new religion; Seth said that he knew he was. And that makes sense. If Jews accepted that the messiah had arrived, Judaism would have been transformed after that. I'm not sure that anyone expected, however, that only some Jews would accept the new messiah. To this day, the Jews are still waiting for the messiah to come. (Perhaps I should be capitalizing that word.)
Your knowledge of the Bible is remarkable. Are you sure you're not a Christian?
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
True about Pinocchio! Well, here's hoping readers catch the reference. Or Google it.
Jesus is an interesting character all in all, like Judas or Paul. Certainly he never calls himself a Christian, naturally enough! But it's quite possible he felt he was the Messiah of the Jews. And yes, it did split Judaism in half. There are a couple of other Messiah candidates later in Jewish history, like the false Messiah Sabbatai Zevi in the 1600s, who converted to Islam and got married in the end. But mostly, people are still waiting.
I'm pretty sure I'm not a Christian. But I sang in Canterbury Cathedral for five years at my boarding school, and I read the entire Bible the summer before starting university (or my Ph.D., I forget which). It's fundamental enough to Western literature that I thought I ought to. I've also been Buddhist and almost Jewish, I followed a conversion course in Judaism one time but didn't convert. About 1/3 of my family is Jewish.
Cheers,
John
Jesus is an interesting character all in all, like Judas or Paul. Certainly he never calls himself a Christian, naturally enough! But it's quite possible he felt he was the Messiah of the Jews. And yes, it did split Judaism in half. There are a couple of other Messiah candidates later in Jewish history, like the false Messiah Sabbatai Zevi in the 1600s, who converted to Islam and got married in the end. But mostly, people are still waiting.
I'm pretty sure I'm not a Christian. But I sang in Canterbury Cathedral for five years at my boarding school, and I read the entire Bible the summer before starting university (or my Ph.D., I forget which). It's fundamental enough to Western literature that I thought I ought to. I've also been Buddhist and almost Jewish, I followed a conversion course in Judaism one time but didn't convert. About 1/3 of my family is Jewish.
Cheers,
John
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CalebPerry
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I have come to accept that Jesus was a deeply wise person, definitely enlightened. Seth's comment that he reincarnated as three people (it would seem that they didn't know they were all part of the same soul) is an indication to me that he was a highly developed entity. Seth also said that Jesus taught reincarnation, but that those teachings were censored. Seth also said another interesting thing: That information was seen as a valuable thing in those days.
Jesus used himself and his apostles as examples of the things he was teaching. Jesus would represented the inner soul, and the apostles represented the reincarnational selves. Jesus may also have compared himself to God, and that (it would seem) is why he came to be seen as God incarnate. Seth, however, said that we all have the same relationship to God (we are part of God).
I also admire the Buddha, though I have no admiration for Muhammad.
Jesus used himself and his apostles as examples of the things he was teaching. Jesus would represented the inner soul, and the apostles represented the reincarnational selves. Jesus may also have compared himself to God, and that (it would seem) is why he came to be seen as God incarnate. Seth, however, said that we all have the same relationship to God (we are part of God).
I also admire the Buddha, though I have no admiration for Muhammad.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Hi Caleb,
I too admire both Jesus and the Buddha for their wisdom (and their compassion). For instance, in the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus says to God, “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” I love that because I think it is wrong to ask someone to forgive you – we have no right to put those we’ve hurt on the spot in that way. God, we can ask, and if those we’ve hurt choose to forgive us, so much the better. Forgiveness is a complicated thing, I think.
Information is always a valuable thing. Interesting about reincarnation! After all, if Jesus returns, he will be reincarnated, quite literally, as far as I can tell.
Jesus does certainly call himself the Son of God in the Bible. I am quite sympathetic to the idea that we are all part of God, as perhaps is all Creation.
I’m no big fan of Muhammad either, though Islam has made some major contributions to world civilization over the centuries, particularly around 800-1400 CE, to my mind. But my job was to save everybody, and there are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth, so that kept me busy.
Cheers,
John
I too admire both Jesus and the Buddha for their wisdom (and their compassion). For instance, in the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus says to God, “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” I love that because I think it is wrong to ask someone to forgive you – we have no right to put those we’ve hurt on the spot in that way. God, we can ask, and if those we’ve hurt choose to forgive us, so much the better. Forgiveness is a complicated thing, I think.
Information is always a valuable thing. Interesting about reincarnation! After all, if Jesus returns, he will be reincarnated, quite literally, as far as I can tell.
Jesus does certainly call himself the Son of God in the Bible. I am quite sympathetic to the idea that we are all part of God, as perhaps is all Creation.
I’m no big fan of Muhammad either, though Islam has made some major contributions to world civilization over the centuries, particularly around 800-1400 CE, to my mind. But my job was to save everybody, and there are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth, so that kept me busy.
Cheers,
John
I think this is very good, John. I can see the strength of the Pinocchio reference, but it seems out of place here. I would give it a poem of its own. You could omit it here and improve the flow of this one.
S1 is tetrameter, unlike the rest? And do you want the last verse to be 8 lines?
Anyway, I like the poem.
Happy Christmas
David
S1 is tetrameter, unlike the rest? And do you want the last verse to be 8 lines?
Does this sound a bit like Nietzsche's case?
Anyway, I like the poem.
Happy Christmas
David
Hi David,
You’ve given me a lot to think about! Yes, tet and eight lines. I know Nietzsche went mad but nothing about his symptoms. Syphilis, I think, poor guy.
I do want to keep Pinocchio. The idea that I was a marionette, whose every movement was in fact God’s work - i.e., an empty vessel without free will - was fundamental to my psychosis; hence, I’ve got no strings, and the wish. I think the quatrain is less jarring without the video beneath, leaving just the quotes and the multiple personalities. Feeling that one is Judas or Cain brought from Hell for another go was not fun. I’ll delete the video link to show what I mean.
Oh - I also like the brutality of the Pinocchio reference. It’s meant to be painful and ridiculous, like the experience.
Happy Christmas!
Cheers,
John
You’ve given me a lot to think about! Yes, tet and eight lines. I know Nietzsche went mad but nothing about his symptoms. Syphilis, I think, poor guy.
I do want to keep Pinocchio. The idea that I was a marionette, whose every movement was in fact God’s work - i.e., an empty vessel without free will - was fundamental to my psychosis; hence, I’ve got no strings, and the wish. I think the quatrain is less jarring without the video beneath, leaving just the quotes and the multiple personalities. Feeling that one is Judas or Cain brought from Hell for another go was not fun. I’ll delete the video link to show what I mean.
Oh - I also like the brutality of the Pinocchio reference. It’s meant to be painful and ridiculous, like the experience.
Happy Christmas!
Cheers,
John