The Prophets
“Reach out and touch faith.”
Depeche Mode
When I was touched by God to voice –
as if my lips were touched with fire –
I spoke in tongues; I had no choice.
I spoke of summer and desire.
Ezekiel, who baked his bread with dung,
stood in the interval between the Lord
and life on Earth. The folk we walk among
behold our work and thus, God is adored.
The bagel shop I read my Hebrew text in –
like Braille, with my right hand – was cool as stone.
It was a place that I was oversexed in.
My marriage offer spoke to me alone.
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country is untrue, I could
still bend the arc of justice. It takes work
to turn this planet upside down; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
Edited:
to turn Creation upside-down; to build
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country’s full of lies, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make the planet straight again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country is unwell, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make this planet well again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
The Prophets
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CalebPerry
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All I can say is that the poem reads well. Although I have heard the biblical names you mention, I don't remember their stories (even Ezekiel, whom I know is a prominent figure). The final stanza is the hardest for me to understand.
I asked in the other thread if you are a Christian, and you said no, yet here we have a poem and a song on Christian themes. I'm guessing you'll say that you wrote this while you were having psychological problems.
I asked in the other thread if you are a Christian, and you said no, yet here we have a poem and a song on Christian themes. I'm guessing you'll say that you wrote this while you were having psychological problems.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Ah, well, none of these guys - Ezekiel, Amos, and Isaiah with the lips on fire - were Christians, they were all Jews, centuries before Jesus (also a Jew). But I'm not Jewish either, any more than I am Christian. This is all me recapping what happened when manic, so you are quite right, that brings the Jewish prophets in!
Oh - the final stanza quotes MLK Jr. and Nina Simone, so it's a little more recent in its references. It's good to know it reads as unclear, it's likely overloaded with references. I'll have a look. Good that the others are clearer!
Oh yeah, Depeche Mode! Now that is on a Christian theme, as you note. But to me, a song called Personal Jesus is pretty ironic.
Cheers,
John
Oh - the final stanza quotes MLK Jr. and Nina Simone, so it's a little more recent in its references. It's good to know it reads as unclear, it's likely overloaded with references. I'll have a look. Good that the others are clearer!
Oh yeah, Depeche Mode! Now that is on a Christian theme, as you note. But to me, a song called Personal Jesus is pretty ironic.
Cheers,
John
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CalebPerry
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- Posts: 3083
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am
I'm on my way to bed, and this afternoon I see the chiropractor. I'll take a look at your edits this evening.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
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CalebPerry
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am
I'm so sorry, John. The third stanza isn't entirely clear to me. It probably has more to do with my famously poor comprehension and my lack of familiarity with biblical characters. However, stanzas one through three are wonderful.
Don't get me wrong -- the third stanza flows nicely, I'm just missing the meaning. Indeed, in some of the first three stanzas, you say things I don't quite understand either. I really do think the problem is on my side. I'm not well read in the classics, in great literature, in mythology or in religious texts (beyond New Age stuff). I spent my life reading diet books, self-help books, computer magazines and Consumer Reports.
Don't get me wrong -- the third stanza flows nicely, I'm just missing the meaning. Indeed, in some of the first three stanzas, you say things I don't quite understand either. I really do think the problem is on my side. I'm not well read in the classics, in great literature, in mythology or in religious texts (beyond New Age stuff). I spent my life reading diet books, self-help books, computer magazines and Consumer Reports.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Hi Caleb,
It is kind of you to return to this old poem and I chuckled at your description of your reading habits! Keep things as simple as possible, but not simpler, Eisntein allegedly wrote, and that as much as anything is my motto. I suspect that Stanza 4's problems for you are on my side, and continue to wonder how I can make it more limpid, which is my ideal. Let me spell out a bit what I had in mind, and see if that works for you - you may well have ideas as to how I could say it better. So, here's the stanza:
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country’s full of lies, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make the planet straight again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
Well, in the Old Testament, there are a bunch of prophets, Jeremiah being a big one and Amos being the last. There are no prophets in the New Testament - the tradition ends pre-Jesus. So, lips "now shut."
MY country's full of lies is a quote from Nina Simone's "MIssissippi Goddam," in italics because it's a quote, and that may be the most obscure thing here. I like to have it, but maybe that line needs to go. Part two of that line, "I could / bend the long arc of justice," is a quote from MLK Jr: "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." So basically I am talking about equal rights in those two lines.
To make the planet straight again may be less clear than I'd like: I mean a just world with world peace, as in days before Adam ate the apple. And to build that holy city refers to a new and blessed world, a holy city.
I suspect that "to effect that cut" is less clear than I'd like. I mean a cut frmo the rotten past opening onto a perfect future. The Second Coming.
I don't know if that helps at all, but Caleb, if you have time to say which bits here totally lost you, I would be very grateful. They probbaly need either rewriting or removal.
Cheers,
John
It is kind of you to return to this old poem and I chuckled at your description of your reading habits! Keep things as simple as possible, but not simpler, Eisntein allegedly wrote, and that as much as anything is my motto. I suspect that Stanza 4's problems for you are on my side, and continue to wonder how I can make it more limpid, which is my ideal. Let me spell out a bit what I had in mind, and see if that works for you - you may well have ideas as to how I could say it better. So, here's the stanza:
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country’s full of lies, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make the planet straight again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
Well, in the Old Testament, there are a bunch of prophets, Jeremiah being a big one and Amos being the last. There are no prophets in the New Testament - the tradition ends pre-Jesus. So, lips "now shut."
MY country's full of lies is a quote from Nina Simone's "MIssissippi Goddam," in italics because it's a quote, and that may be the most obscure thing here. I like to have it, but maybe that line needs to go. Part two of that line, "I could / bend the long arc of justice," is a quote from MLK Jr: "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." So basically I am talking about equal rights in those two lines.
To make the planet straight again may be less clear than I'd like: I mean a just world with world peace, as in days before Adam ate the apple. And to build that holy city refers to a new and blessed world, a holy city.
I suspect that "to effect that cut" is less clear than I'd like. I mean a cut frmo the rotten past opening onto a perfect future. The Second Coming.
I don't know if that helps at all, but Caleb, if you have time to say which bits here totally lost you, I would be very grateful. They probbaly need either rewriting or removal.
Cheers,
John
I've edited S4, hopefully making it a little clearer:
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country is unwell, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make this planet well again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
Cheers,
John
The prophets all are done now, Jeremiah
to Amos. Lips that parted are now shut.
Yet if my country is unwell, I could
bend the long arc of justice. It takes work
to make this planet well again; to build
that holy city. To effect that cut.
Cheers,
John
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CalebPerry
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3083
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am
So John, you yourself are saying that in one stanza you are referencing biblical prophets, and the fact that the trend to prophets ends before Jesus (does anyone in the world know that except biblical scholars???). Then you reference Nina Simone lyrics, and then a quote from MLK. Then you have a comment of your own about a holy city which is obscure enough that it requires an explanation. Then you have something about the Second Coming.
I find myself perplexed at this point. You have written poems that were so utterly clear that the meaning jumped right out at me, and at other times you write poems that are so obscure that no one in the world could expect to understand them except you. At this point, I find myself asking, "Is John all right?"
For a while I was a corporate trainer, and my focus was on relating to people in such a clear way that even the stupidest person I was training could understand me. That experience has informed my poetry.
I just don't know what to say to you. Part of being a good poet involves being able to imagine the effect your words would have on the audience you are trying to reach, but you have written something that only one person in the world (you) could be expected to understand. There seems to be a disconnect in your head.
I don't want to say too much more because I know you've had psychological problems, and that you are on medication. I don't want to say anything that would upset you. But I can tell you this: If in one poem you reference stories from the Bible, a popular singer, a civil rights leader, and then the Second Coming of Jesus, I don't think you should expect ANYONE to understand you.
I'm sorry to be so forthright with my opinion.
I find myself perplexed at this point. You have written poems that were so utterly clear that the meaning jumped right out at me, and at other times you write poems that are so obscure that no one in the world could expect to understand them except you. At this point, I find myself asking, "Is John all right?"
For a while I was a corporate trainer, and my focus was on relating to people in such a clear way that even the stupidest person I was training could understand me. That experience has informed my poetry.
I just don't know what to say to you. Part of being a good poet involves being able to imagine the effect your words would have on the audience you are trying to reach, but you have written something that only one person in the world (you) could be expected to understand. There seems to be a disconnect in your head.
I don't want to say too much more because I know you've had psychological problems, and that you are on medication. I don't want to say anything that would upset you. But I can tell you this: If in one poem you reference stories from the Bible, a popular singer, a civil rights leader, and then the Second Coming of Jesus, I don't think you should expect ANYONE to understand you.
I'm sorry to be so forthright with my opinion.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Hi Caleb,
Don't worry, I find your point about ANYONE understanding my stanza 4, particularly as it was, perfectly reasonable. I've removed Nina Simone, who didn't really need to be there to make my point; earlier, I had already removed a reference to the surrender at Yorktown during the American War of Independence, so I've been working over this stanza for some time. I don't really mind having one obscure stanza in a poem called 'The Prophets," the rest you found pretty clear, if not limpid, and obscurity has its place both in prophecy and in poetry, as long as the passage is resonant. As you note, your poetry tends to be very clear, but I'm ready for our aesthetics to be somewhat different. You've got me editing S4 again now, and I have my sleeves rolled up; but the basic skeleton of the thing I think is there to stay.
I'm going to do a little tweak right now.
Cheers,
John
Don't worry, I find your point about ANYONE understanding my stanza 4, particularly as it was, perfectly reasonable. I've removed Nina Simone, who didn't really need to be there to make my point; earlier, I had already removed a reference to the surrender at Yorktown during the American War of Independence, so I've been working over this stanza for some time. I don't really mind having one obscure stanza in a poem called 'The Prophets," the rest you found pretty clear, if not limpid, and obscurity has its place both in prophecy and in poetry, as long as the passage is resonant. As you note, your poetry tends to be very clear, but I'm ready for our aesthetics to be somewhat different. You've got me editing S4 again now, and I have my sleeves rolled up; but the basic skeleton of the thing I think is there to stay.
I'm going to do a little tweak right now.
Cheers,
John