Dinner (final, incorporating suggestions)

This is a serious poetry forum not a "love-in". Post here for more detailed, constructive criticism.
Post Reply
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:08 pm

I think this is my final, incorporating both Ray's and Lia's suggestions.

Dinner

The tartar sauce from the partially
used bottle that I fished out from
behind the sour milk, and which I
mixed into my salmon steak tonight,
turned out to be four years past its
expiration date, and now I am
looking much like the salad itself —
green, pink and yellow — and waiting to die.

=======================================

Dinner (version 2)

The tartar sauce from the partially
used bottle that I fished out from
the back of the fridge, and which
I mixed into my salmon steak tonight
(to make salmon salad, what else?),
turned out to be four years over date,
and now I am looking much like
the salad itself — green, pink and yellow —
and wondering how long I have to live.

=======================================

Dinner (version 1)

The tartar sauce from the partially
used bottle that I fished out from
the back of the fridge, and which I
mixed into my salmon steak tonight
(to make salmon salad, what else?),
turned out to be four years over date,
and now I am looking like the salad
itself — green, pink and yellow, all
at the same time — and waiting to die.



Alternatives to "waiting to die":

... taking my pulse.
... praying to God.
... calling Poison Control.
... feeling for fever.

For you people in Britain, do you make meat salads? Usually chicken, tuna or salmon mixed with mayonnaise and some crunchy vegetable like diced celery.

Here in the U.S., a large piece of sautéed salmon without bones is sometimes called a "salmon steak".
Last edited by CalebPerry on Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:32 am, edited 10 times in total.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
jisbell00
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 4:53 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:52 am

Hi Caleb,

Waiting to die sounds pretty serious! But more to the point, this has your signature voice and eye, and i have come to enjoy both.

CHeers,
John
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:58 am

Thanks, John.

I don't have to say "waiting to die", which of course is an exaggeration. I've found that sometimes exaggerating makes for a better poem. I could also say "dialing Poison Control" or "praying to God" or "feeling my pulse", etc. If you have any ideas, feel free to share them. "... taking my pulse" might be more effective.

I still can't believe that I ate that four-year-old tartar sauce. It had turned yellow, and had the consistency of petroleum jelly, but it smelled and tasted okay, so I ate it. I hate to waste anything.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
jisbell00
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 4:53 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:14 am

I think waiting to die is a good effective way to end!

Cheers,
John
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:26 am

Thanks, John!
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
ray miller
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 7429
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:16 am

CalebPerry wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:08 pm
Dinner (version 2)

For you people in Britain, do you make meat salads? Usually chicken, tuna or salmon mixed with mayonnaise and some crunchy vegetable like diced celery.


Firstly, we live in Great Britain. I don't wish to launch a campaign to Make Britain Great Again but if these omissions persist I shall feel obliged.
Secondly, our staple diet is bread and dripping with thick layers of tomato ketchup.
Thirdly, you ought to get "beyond its expiry date" in there somewhere.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
User avatar
Lia
Preponderant Poster
Preponderant Poster
Posts: 1459
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:21 pm
Location: southampton

Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:37 am

That made me smile, Caleb. I've done this before with horseradish.

I very much like the last line of 'time/die' in the first version - 'and waiting to die' has just the right amount of dark humour. I will say though, that I prefer the line-breaks of the revision. I like Ray's suggestion of 'expiry date'...

and Ray, you crack me up!

Caleb, I have seen sweetcorn mixed into tuna before, sometimes raw red onion. I've seen sultanas in a yellowish goo of chicken. But I've only seen these things from a safe distance. As for tartare sauce, I use it on everything!

Lia
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:15 am

Thank you, Ray. You live in Great Britain, but you are not Great British. Go figure.

So "four years over date" isn't clear enough? You want the words "beyond the expiry" in there? And you want that too, Lia?

This may be a difference between America and Fabulous Britain. You'll notice that John Isbell, who is primarily American (actually a world traveller more than anything else), didn't ask for "beyond the expiry" to be used. In my world, the expiration date is the only date ever associated with food. Do you use different dates in Marvelous Britain, like "manufactured" dates and "sell by" dates? (In Great America, the "sell by" and "expiration" dates are generally the same.)

Lia, I can bring back the old ending and keep the slightly different line breaks of the revision. That won't be a problem.

The dictionary tells me that tartar sauce and tartare sauce have different recipes.

Thanks to both of you.
Last edited by CalebPerry on Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
jisbell00
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat May 21, 2022 4:53 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:35 am

Wow, good to know that about tartar sauce and tartare sauce! And steak tartare is neither.

We were about thirty miles from Brittany last week, or Bretagne in French, as Great Britain is Grande Bretagne. Where they speak Breton.

Cheers,
John
User avatar
Lia
Preponderant Poster
Preponderant Poster
Posts: 1459
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:21 pm
Location: southampton

Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:28 pm

Hi Caleb,
So "four years over date" isn't clear enough? You want the words "beyond the expiry" in there? And you want that too, Lia?
Well, you could say 'four years past its date' which would give a similar ominous 'death' tone as expiry.

I didn't know that about tartar/tartare. I haven't got a clue what one I'm putting on my fish 'n' chips here in marvellous, magnificent Britain, but it's the one with pickled gherkins chopped up in it!

Lia
ray miller
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 7429
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:33 pm

I'm suggesting "four years beyond its expiry date" because of "how long I have to live".
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:40 pm

Interesting comment, Ray, which I'll try to figure out later. I'm off to bed now.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Morpheus
Prolific Poster
Prolific Poster
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:50 pm
Location: Lancashire

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:51 pm

Was it 'best before' or 'used by'? There's a difference over here, I'm still eating Vegemite I found in the Cupboard that went out of date in 2019 but it's best before so there's no problem. I wouldn't risk tartar sauce though.

It's another entertaining story Caleb, thanks for the read.
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:51 pm

Morpheus wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:51 pm
Was it 'best before' or 'used by'? There's a difference over here, I'm still eating Vegemite I found in the Cupboard that went out of date in 2019 but it's best before so there's no problem. I wouldn't risk tartar sauce though.

It's another entertaining story Caleb, thanks for the read.
Thanks, Mike.

Here in the U.S. the "sell by" and "use by" dates seem to have been combined into one. As for "best before", I see those once in a while, but not often. Either way, it seems that my "four years over date" should be clear enough for everyone.

The tartar sauce has grown more viscous and yellow, but it still smelled right, and the taste I took of it seemed to be right. But, having the viscosity of petroleum jelly, it ruined the salmon.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:52 pm

ray miller wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:33 pm
I'm suggesting "four years beyond its expiry date" because of "how long I have to live".
Ray, I'm really not sure what you are saying here. Why should the expiry date of the tartar sauce and my own expiry date (death) be somehow related? Are you suggesting that I make some clever association between the two?
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
ray miller
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 7429
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am

Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:54 am

CalebPerry wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:52 pm
ray miller wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:33 pm
I'm suggesting "four years beyond its expiry date" because of "how long I have to live".
Ray, I'm really not sure what you are saying here. Why should the expiry date of the tartar sauce and my own expiry date (death) be somehow related? Are you suggesting that I make some clever association between the two?
The writer of the poem is wondering how long he might have to live because he feels sick after eating tartar sauce four years beyond its expiry date. The association is already there, the irony is apparent. I'm suggesting that the use of "expiry date" makes it more poetic.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
User avatar
CalebPerry
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3077
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 am

Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:04 am

Ray, I appreciate that you came back to explain what you meant. Associating the time since the expiration date and the time I might have to live (which is what you mean, right?) may add a distracting idea to the poem, mucking up my central point. That is my initial reaction, but I'll think about it. Your comments always make me think.

I did incorporate your suggestion after all, and Lia's too.
Signature info:
If you don't like the black theme, it is easy to switch to a lighter color. Just ask me how.
If I don't critique your poem, it is probably because I don't understand it.
Post Reply