Engineers' Rejoinder (Rev 2)

[Morpheus]

Engineers' Rejoinder (Rev 2)

After Engineers’ corner by Wendy Cope

Sweethearts care for blueprints more than ballads –
that’s why an engineer can stimulate
and charm a lengthy queue of willing dates
while poets stay at home and masturbate.

No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets;
to count love's ways by sonnet wouldn't do.
Instead, young valentines are wooed by complex
equations such as one add one is two.

While poets’ words are stained with ink like oil
on clothes or roughed up skin that bleeds sometimes,
those engineers are out smooching lyrical
with sealing rings and lubricated lines.

The lifelong soul mate wants for nothing more
than deep connections of the two pin kind,
while poets print their words like circuit boards
that function out of sight and out of mind.

A poem is forgotten quick or skipped,
ephemeral, unlike cable data sheets
for parts with two year warranties. No wonder
those who seek true love fall at the feet

of Engineers: those gods who fend off nymphs’
advances and muses who orgasm
to algorithms run in object code;
not rhyme or rhythm – that doesn’t happen.


***************************************************************************************


Engineer Rejoinder (Rev 1)

After Engineers’ corner by Wendy Cope

Sweethearts care for blueprints more than ballads –
that’s why an engineer can stimulate
and charm a lengthy queue of willing dates
while poets stay at home and masturbate.

No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets
or serenades their love with sonnet form.
Instead, young valentines are wooed by standards
governed to a European Norm.

While poets’ words are stained with ink like oil
on clothes or roughed up skin that bleeds sometimes,
those engineers are out smooching lyrical
with sealing rings and lubricated lines.

The lifelong soul mate wants for nothing more
than deep connections of the two pin kind,
while poets print their words like circuit boards
that function out of sight and out of mind.

A poem is forgotten quick or skipped,
ephemeral, unlike cable data sheets
for parts with two year warranties. No wonder
those who seek true love fall at the feet

of Engineers: those gods who fend off nymphs’
advances and muses who orgasm
to algorithms run in object code;
not rhyme or rhythm – that doesn’t happen.



******************************************************************************************

Original

After Engineers' Corner by Wendy Cope

Ladies care more for blueprints than for ballads –
that’s why an engineer can stimulate
and charm a lengthy queue of willing dates
while poets stay at home and masturbate.

No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets
or serenades their love in sonnet forms.
Instead most valentines are wooed by maths
and number crunching of Laplace transforms.

While poets’ words are stained with ink like oil
on clothes or roughed up skin that bleeds sometimes,
those engineers are out smooching lyrical
with sealing rings and lubricated lines.

Most dames search their soul and want for nothing more
than deep connections of the two pin kind,
while poets print their words like circuits boards
that function out of sight and out of mind.

A poem is forgotten quick or skipped,
ephemeral, unlike a cable data sheet
or technical specification. No wonder
girls with long term love fall at the feet

of Engineers: those gods who fend off nymphs’
advances and muses who climax to
algorithms run in source or object code;
not rhyme or rhythm penned in luscious ode.

[ton321]

Morph


It's absolutely brilliant. I know i like a poem when i get a kind of jealous feeling, as if i wish I had written it.
I feel like you enjoyed writing this.
Third stanza, second line, should the word "that" replace "the" ?
Sophie Hannah has written some great pieces, if you like Wendy Cope., especially the "you wont find a bath in Leeds" poem


Tony

[jisbell00]

Hi Morph,

I agree, this is great, and it does look like enjoyed carrying out the idea!
In the second last quatrain, I think you could end with a full stop.

CHeers,
John

[Morpheus]

Thanks Tony and John, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've corrected the typo.

Yes I did enjoy the write, I've been a bit too busy with the engineering work recently but I'm managing to squeeze out a weekly poem and it's easier for me to stay light and slightly saucy. It seems to work well for Ray.

The ironic thing with Wendy Cope's Engineers' Corner is that many engineers are not on great money and it's just a means to keep food on the table whereas poetry can be quite a lofty ivory tower pursuit for the wealthy. I was in the Duke of Northumberland's house over the summer and he has a library suffered full of ballads, odes and sonnets written by friends, family and associates of the Percy family over many centuries

I'm not expecting anyone to get their violin out for engineers though and on a lighter note, I've never impressed or attracted a partner with my engineering skills or accomplishments but if you can rhyme a chat up line then you can expect a few eyelash flutters and offers. Of course, all poets will have first hand experiences of this just as all engineers are rich.

[jisbell00]

Amen, amen. Poetry goes a lot further than engineering in the average courtship. I think both fields produce eccentrics - certainly i've met my share of weird poets, and MIT has its share of characters - but that is not without its appeal in the field of love. I would say that it's not your average poet who can expect to earn an engineer's salary, but as you say, not all engineers are average engineers, or even high-flying engineers.

Anyway. Good write!

Cheers,
John

[ray miller]

Loved it. Just my type of thing. "girls with long term love" - must be summat better than that, though. Also a bit disappointing to see the rhyme scheme change in the last stanza.

of Engineers: those gods who fend off nymphs’
advances and muses who orgasm
to algorithms run in source or object code;
not rhyme or rhythm. That doesn't happen.

[Morpheus]

I like your ending suggestion Ray. I'll definitely be revisiting the long term love line. I could do with working on the last two stanzas and sorting out the meter in one or two places. Some US formalists elsewhere accused me of posting a lazy draft amongst other things. I'm not sure about title either, the original set me up for a ding dong with the gender politicians over there. I should have probably kept this between me and Wendy on this side of the pond.

[CalebPerry]

This is a great poem, Mike. I enjoyed reading it.

I love the fact that it is written in clear language and rhymed. Not many people are writing that way these days.

My only suggestion is that you scan the poem and make sure the meter is smooth. Partly because it is long, a poem like this will work best with a consistent rhythm. Good meter carries the reader along to the conclusion.

I also love the creative and unabashedly blunt language, which reminds me a little of my own writing.

Nicely done.

[Morpheus]

Thanks Caleb, I really appreciate your endorsement on this poem and I shall do my best to improve the meter when I get a free slot. I'm busy catching up on critting responsibilities first.

Yes, I agree we're both not afraid to use ugly or blunt language and images in a poem when called for and it's not something you see as often.

[CalebPerry]

Yeah, who said poetry always has to be pretty? Unfortunately, though, that's what a lot of editors are looking for.

[Lia]

Hi Morpheus,

I like the revision. I see you've removed the female/male from the poem. I wasn't keen on S2 with the two 'forms'. I think your revision is better in some ways, but compared to the other stanzas it now lacks specifics.

"No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets
or serenades their love with sonnet form.
Instead, young valentines are wooed by standards
governed to a European Norm."

I understand you're being guided by the word 'form' in L2, but if that word changed it might give you more choices for L4. A pity the timing won't allow for something like 'a sonnet rose' (to go with the valentine theme). Anyway, I do think the stanza needs one more push, or at least with that last line.

My favourite stanzas are this one below and the final stanza,

"While poets’ words are stained with ink like oil
on clothes or roughed up skin that bleeds sometimes,
those engineers are out smooching lyrical
with sealing rings and lubricated lines."

I love it.

In S4, I think you can get rid of the 's' in circuits.

A cheeky and fun rejoinder to Wendy Cope's sarky poem. Nicely done.

Lia

[Morpheus]

Thanks Lia, I'll have another look at S2.

The poem caused an uproar elsewhere....particularly with the feminists and those who think of themselves as prefects to the cause of good poetry. I honestly didn't think anyone would take this poem seriously and see it as an affront.

A load of ad hominem, a pile on and a locked thread later, I'm glad to be working on the poem quietly in more civil climes. Your comments are much appreciated. I've done my best to smooth the metre but I agree that EN standards are not exactly the most vividly interesting comparison to make with sonnets. I liked Laplace Transforms better. I shall put my thinking cap on again.

[Morpheus]

I've simplified the calculations and standards in S2 and ditched serenades (which are more for song writing really). What do you reckon to the update?

Thanks again.

[Lia]

There's always silly people about, Morpheus. If they had thought, even for five seconds, then it might've dawned on them that the angle of the poem is seen through a male narrator who is comparing the competition between male engineers and male poets for the hand of a lady. The poem is not saying that all engineers are male. Or, indeed, that all poets are. Anyway, Cope set up the premise (small boys dream ... ). I'm sorry you had to go through that though.

Onto S2:

"No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets,
can love declared in sonnet form be true?
Instead, young valentines are wooed by simple
calculations: like one add one is two."

Perhaps 'could love'? And also a colon or semi colon after couplets?

An alternative might be:

and love declared in sonnets can't be true. (or some variation of that)

Would it work to say 'complex' instead of 'simple' so that you have a similar rhyme with 'couplets'? Also, there's a slight cheekiness to it. Or ....maybe it is quite a complex sum!

Lia

[jisbell00]

I think Russell and Whitehead spent 400 pages proving that one plus one is two.

Good poem and taking shape nicely, I think. I wouldn't worry about those in a huff. Some are so almost professionally.

Cheers,
John

[Lia]

I think Russell and Whitehead spent 400 pages proving that one plus one is two.

Ah, then I think Morpheus's next poem should be a long one explaining that very thing!

[jisbell00]

Take one from two and what is left?
Not much. An item in a list.
Are one and one the same? Persist
in asking, and if you are deft,

you'll find that they're not same but like:
each its own unit, though composed
of like stuff, not metamorphosed
by otherness. Just as a bike

has two wheels, so our units match.
We've two such units. In their sum,
we move through one and one to come
to two. It's simple. There's no catch.

Cheers,
John

[Morpheus]

Apparently 'three' is the magic number in writing or the rule of three as proven by John's entertaining three stanza poem.

John, in all seriousness I think poetry needs a professional body with codes of conduct etc. and that would side-line certain Eratosaurs into extinction.

Thanks Lia, I had 'complex 'and then decided not to patronise but, then again, why not? The whole thing is rather topsy-turvy.

How about this variation (sticking to a numbers theme but with Elizabeth Barrett Browning)

No twosome couples up to rhyming couplets;
to count love's ways by sonnet wouldn't do.
Instead, young valentines are wooed by complex
calculations: like one add one is two.

[jisbell00]

Eratosaur! Now there's a word.

How about such as for like?

Cheers,
John

[Leaf]

Alternatively, Morph, perhaps you could begin that line on an unstressed beat and cut 'like'?

[Morpheus]

Thank you both, I've come up with a fix that uses both suggestions.

[Leaf]

Well done, Morph. I haven't commented on this one at length as I don't know the Cope poem. Anyway, Coo and I are rather out of our depth in this part of the forum (^v^)