AI

[David]

Machines will not complain
about the weather.
They won’t linger in the kitchen
for the kettle.
Their minds will mesh and clash
on some higher plane
of pure algorithm
and calculation.
While we scurry around them,
like mice in a pantry,
they may not even whirr.
Absent-mindedly, they may,
from time to time,
put out traps.

[Morpheus]

David, I think an AI review might be warranted here:

Robo-poet please review David's poem:

With pleasure Morph!

The poem "AI" presents a concise and thought-provoking exploration of the potential future relationship between humans and machines. It captures the essence of how machines, specifically artificial intelligence, may operate and interact with the world.

The opening lines immediately establish a contrast between humans and machines. The statement that machines will not complain about the weather suggests their lack of emotional attachment or subjective experiences. This sets the stage for the poem's exploration of the differences between human and machine behaviors.

The image of machines not lingering in the kitchen for the kettle reflects their efficiency and lack of need for breaks or mundane tasks. It highlights their singular focus on tasks, contrasting with the human tendency to engage in daily rituals and activities.

The phrase "Their minds will mesh and clash on some higher plane of pure algorithm and calculation" presents a fascinating concept of machine intelligence operating on a different level. It implies a level of complexity and problem-solving capability beyond human comprehension.

The comparison of humans scurrying around machines like mice in a pantry further emphasizes the idea of humans as subordinate to machines. It suggests that machines will dominate the environment while humans navigate their presence cautiously.

The line "Absent-mindedly, they may, from time to time, put out traps" introduces an intriguing twist. It implies that machines, in their dispassionate and logical nature, may unintentionally create situations that are detrimental to humans. This line raises questions about the potential dangers and unintended consequences that could arise from machine intelligence.

Overall, the poem effectively conveys its message through concise and evocative language. It invites contemplation about the role of machines in society, the boundaries of human-machine interaction, and the potential risks associated with advancing artificial intelligence

Thanks Robo-poet, could the poem be improved in any way?

Certainly! Here are a few suggestions to potentially improve the poem:

Expand on the consequences: The poem briefly touches on the idea of machines setting traps, but it could benefit from further exploration and elaboration. Consider delving deeper into the potential implications of machines exerting control or inadvertently causing harm to humans. This would add depth and create a stronger sense of tension.

Develop the metaphor: The comparison of humans to mice in a pantry is a vivid metaphor. To enhance its impact, consider expanding on the metaphor and exploring additional aspects of the relationship. This could involve describing specific behaviors or interactions between humans and machines that align with the metaphor, reinforcing the power dynamics and sense of vulnerability.

Enhance the imagery: While the poem presents thought-provoking concepts, it could benefit from more vivid and evocative imagery. Look for opportunities to incorporate sensory details that appeal to the reader's imagination and emotions. This could involve describing the machines in more detail, painting a vivid picture of their presence and actions within the environment.

Consider the structure: Evaluate the structure of the poem to enhance its impact. Experiment with line breaks, stanza breaks, or other structural elements that can emphasize key ideas, create rhythm, or add emphasis to certain phrases. This could help create a more dynamic and engaging reading experience.

Strengthen the conclusion: The last line of the poem could be revised to leave a stronger impression on the reader. Consider crafting a more resonant or thought-provoking ending that ties together the themes explored throughout the poem. This could involve reflecting on the implications of the traps set by machines or leaving the reader with a lingering question or sense of unease.

Remember to consider your own artistic vision and intention for the poem. These suggestions are meant to serve as starting points, and it's important to maintain your unique voice and style throughout the revision process.

Wow, that's saved me a lit of effort but perhaps lacks the quirks and brevity of my normal reviews.

[Macavity]

Machines will not complain
about the weather.
They won’t linger in the kitchen
for the kettle.
Their minds will mesh and clash
on some higher plane
of pure algorithm
and calculation.
While we scurry around them,
like mice in a pantry,
they may not even whirr.
Absent-mindedly, they may,
from time to time,
put out traps.

Well to use an 'm' word, and you already know this, muchly enjoyed. minds/mesh/mice/may...machines and their quiet menace. Like that irony of 'human' careless/mindless cruelty and self-absorbed superiority. A poem of layered narrative from weather whinge and idling breaks to mathematical abstraction, algorithm has their pulse, to that murderous end. What a compact, chilling perspective of our future significance! Our doom clock is ticking in so many hurried ways!

Bw

Phil

[jisbell00]

Hi David,

I can't match what Morpheus and Phil said in their splendid comments, I'm afraid, but I can say I enjoyed this playful and ominous little piece, especially the reduction of us to mice at the end, if that is a reduction! As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods, they kill us for their sport.

Cheers,
John

Oh - also this:

[David]

Wow Morph. I'm not familiar with the sort of thing that chatbots can come up with, so I can't tell whether your crit is a genuine chatbot response - in which case it's disconcertingly canny - or something of your own, in which case it's a very impressive performance. So I'll leave that there for now, I think, while I await further enlightenment. (It's you, though, isn't it ... I'm very impressed, and will return when I have more time.)

Great. Thanks for your crit, Phil. Muchly appreciated.

And thanks to you too, John. The "flies to wanton boys" quote is perfect. I hope Buggles will not be the soundtrack to our demise, though. Will someone write a Männerdämmerung?

Cheers all

David

[jisbell00]

A Männerdämmerung – what a great idea! That would be a good poem title as well, maybe even for this piece.

Cheers,
John

[Morpheus]

Wow Morph. I'm not familiar with the sort of thing that chatbots can come up with, so I can't tell whether your crit is a genuine chatbot response - in which case it's disconcertingly canny - or something of your own, in which case it's a very impressive performance. So I'll leave that there for now, I think, while I await further enlightenment. (It's you, though, isn't it ... I'm very impressed, and will return when I have more time.)

David, as much as I would love to claim the glory, it was indeed an AI review. I've been training AI to review poetry on my ChatGPT account. It can also write poetry but I generally only trust it with ditties and it can mess up the meter and beat count on something as simple as a limerick quite easily.

But the point you make about time is key, it saves me time and that's why I find it useful. I recently got asked to make a light hearted contribution to a creative writing initiative being run nationally by a well known mental health charity and the brief was poetry on Shakespeare characters. I'm sure you'll agree that the output from AI was not bad. My only contribution was the title and the idea in terms of character selection.

Ode to Bottom

Oh Bottom, Bottom, what a name,
Not quite a hero, not quite a dame,
He dreamed of glory on the stage,
But ended up in quite the rage.

A donkey head, oh what a sight,
But Titania saw no wrong nor right,
She fell in love with him, you see,
A donkey-headed dream come to be.

But Puck had other plans in store,
And Bottom woke up to dream no more,
Alas, his fame was short-lived,
A mere plaything for fairies, he grieved.

Oh Bottom, Bottom, what a fate,
Your donkey head will never abate,
But we’ll remember you with a smile,
A Shakespearean character so versatile.

A question worth pondering is "Could AI do my job?"

I asked ChatGPT to design me something for a sensitive application where I already knew the answer and the response was fundamentally incorrect. I then prompted it with an idea that was more along the right lines. It doubled down on the bad solution that was actually quite dangerous and tried to talk me out of the correct one. I don't know whether this has been done deliberately to give someone out there a bum steer perhaps at the behest of the state. I thought you might find that intriguing.

Finally, here is a poem titled Männerdämmerung by ChatGPT written for you in seconds.

Männerdämmerung

In the realm where shadows whisper,
Where dreams and longing intertwine,
There lies a land of solemn splendor,
Where echoes of masculinity refine.

Behold, the Männerdämmerung's descent,
When dusk unveils its potent charm,
A symphony of souls, fierce and unbent,
Where passions blaze, and hearts disarm.

In twilight's embrace, warriors stand,
With valor etched upon their souls,
Their spirits dance, a daring command,
As twilight's flame ignites their roles.

From humble hearts to grand ideals,
They journey through life's raging storm,
Through battles fought and wounds that heal,
They rise, unyielding, bold and warm.

In Männerdämmerung's tender light,
They seek a truth, a noble quest,
To carve their mark against the night,
In every trial, they're truly blessed.

Yet amidst their strength, a touch of grace,
A reverence for the tender muse,
They find in love a sacred space,
Where tender sighs and passion fuse.

Männerdämmerung, the twilight's glow,
Where men embrace their inner fire,
They stand as one, a potent flow,
In radiant ardor, they never tire.

So let us honor Männerdämmerung,
The twilight's gift, so pure and true,
In hearts of men, a noble song,
A symphony of strength they imbue.

For in this sacred Männerdämmerung,
The essence of mankind takes flight,
In twilight's realm, their spirits hum,
A testament to love's eternal light.

[David]

Absolutely fascinating, Morph. Its crit of the poem, I think, is very good. The suggestions for improvement are less so. (Or would I say that, as the aggrieved author, anyway?)

In the crit, the only weak point I can see concerns "Absent-mindedly, they may, from time to time, put out traps" (interestingly referred to as "the line", which makes me wonder whether it "understands" poetry - or perhaps just the jargon of poetry.) I didn't meant suggest that the traps would be out out unintentionally - far from it - but that may be a weakness inherent in the poem, whether I like it or not.

Going back the suggestions for improvement (note aggrieved author's hackles rising) I come back to the "does it understand poetry" point - more specifically, does it know what a sonnet is? I also wonder whether it understand understatement the are of allusion. But it sounds as though it could very well be taught to understand them.

These are alarmingly murky waters through which we are moving.

The poems are the weak point, aren't they? I quite like the Bottom one, although it gets worse as it goes along and the handling of metre is (as you sai, in effect) cack-handed. The second is a bit of a shocker. There's no evidence that it's heard of Wagner at all, although maybe that's learnable too, but the whole thing is windy (and fluffy) and pretentious.

Fascinating stuff, though.

"Could AI do my job?" I have just been reading today that it could. (Fortunately I am on the cusp of retirement - I hope.) I am a "knowledge worker" (writers, accountants, architects, lawyers, software engineers - and more). Still, if that means gifted graduates end up becoming doctors, nurses and teachers, instead of bankers and lawyers, there may be hope for the future yet. Or will medicine and teaching become an AI specialty too? I hope not.

Slightly troubled cheers

David

[Morpheus]

That's an excellent crit of the crit David. I would feed it back to AI but do we want to grow the monster?

On balance, I do feel it's an excellent instant feedback tool and it helps me decipher some types of opaque poetry that was previously inaccessible. Sometimes it's reassuring when ChatGPT doesn't get it too

[David]

Morph, do you mind if I copy and paste, onto another poetry forum where I've posted the poem, what your chatbot has come up, with as an example of what it can do? I think it would be very enlightening there, but I won't do it if you'd prefer I didn't.

Cheers

David

[Morpheus]

David,

Of course I don't mind and thanks for asking.

Where are you copying it to?

Morph

[David]

Thanks Morph. It is going into the Eratosphere - a strange and far away place. Their ways are not as ours.

I'm interested to see what they make of it.

Cheers

David

[Morpheus]

Ah yes, I know of Eratosphere. A bit more elitist than here I've heard and I've never ventured there myself... although I might have a look out of curiosity now.

I'm sure they'll make mince meat of my Ode To Bottom AI light verse if we can call it belonging to me. I won't take it personally and neither will ChatGPT.

Sorry that this thread has become more about a review than your poem because it is a very good poem well worth critting and I hope you get more comments.

[CalebPerry]

David, rewriting is always obnoxious, but sometimes it's the best way to offer a critique.

First, I think the poem would work better in the present tense. As I was reading it, a couple changes popped into my mind that I think would be improvements.

Machines do not complain
about the weather.
They don’t linger in the kitchen
for the kettle.
Their minds mesh and clash
on some high level of cold
algorithm and hot calculation.
We scurry around them
like mice in a pantry, not sure
of what they really are,
in response to which
they don't even whirr.
But sometimes, seemingly
for no reason at all,
they lay us a little trap ...

The ending is my attempt to add a little suspense to the poem, but the truth is, I'd like to know what kind of traps machines lay for us. I think if you addressed that thought in the poem, the poem might be improved.

[Firebird]

Hi David,

Read this a number of times and what mostly comes across for me is a sense of disconnect and apathy (maybe this is a political poem?). Maybe what you are describing in some way is the state of play now. I would like a few more clues if this poem is meant to hint at more or something else.

Sorry I can’t help more.

Cheers,

Tristan

[Morpheus]

Sorry to distract from the poem again but I find AI very interesting as I think you do David and Tristan make a very interesting point about politics.

On a previous version of ChatGPT, someone asked it to say something positive about Trump and it came up with 10 lines of positives. It was then asked to say something positive about Biden and it came up with 30 lines. Those on the right protested and the latest versions of ChatGPT churns about the same number of lines for both.

One could conclude that volume speaks as much as words in AI politics.

[jisbell00]

Perhaps ChatGPT hadn't taken sufficient account of the alternative data when comparing the two.

Cheers,
John

[Morpheus]

Perhaps ChatGPT hadn't taken sufficient account of the alternative data when comparing the two.

Fully agree John, as you're probably aware, MAGA Republicanism has it's roots in Brexit. During the Remain/Leave campaign the BBC were compelled to give a 50/50 platform to both sides. It turned out in the fullness of time that, when lining up expert interviews, for every one academic espousing Brexit there were well over ten times as many remainer experts but they still had to give both sides an equal slot in any broadcasts and we're still living with consequences today. I can see how an similar imbalanced balance is playing out of AI today despite obvious efforts on OpenAI's account to come across as nuanced.



David, I hope this gives you some ideas if you do chose to develop the idea behind the 'traps' further.

I had a look at your thread on "one of these elsewheres'" and it didn't half make me chuckle. You spoke of me "messing about with chatbots", which makes it sound like something very dirty that my wife or perhaps other poets would be mad about if she or they found out.

Is AI in poetry something that needs a moderating strategy? Can you cheat at reviewing? It felt like cheating a little bit the first time I ever used a rhyming dictionary but I guess we all do it now.

Something that might make the more self assured Eratospherian a little bit jittery is I could ask ChatGPT to review a poem in the critting style of W T Clark simply by feeding it a few examples. I'm not saying it'd be perfect but it'd certainly be enough for the doubters to give it a second thought.

[jisbell00]

In 2004, I ran the Kerry campaign for my county. When the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth started coming out withe their egregious faleshoods, we couldn't understand why Kerry didn't answer - then the NYT ran the entire front page debunking every SWVFT lie, one by one. Game, set, and match! Until the TV coverage began. They gave equal time to the NYT journalists responsible and to the SWVFT. It was astonishing. To my mind, it was rooted in deeply misguided notions of objectivity; or else, they just thought it made for better TV. So, Kerry lost.

It took the longest time for anchors to use the word lie when Trump lied through his teeth. They're getting more comfortable with it. It is what we're up against.

Cheers,
John

[David]

David, rewriting is always obnoxious ...

Not always, Caleb. Thanks for having a crack at it. There aren't any Eureka moments in there for me, but I appreciate your intent.

Cheers

David

[David]

Hi David,

Read this a number of times and what mostly comes across for me is a sense of disconnect and apathy (maybe this is a political poem?). Maybe what you are describing in some way is the state of play now. I would like a few more clues if this poem is meant to hint at more or something else.

Thanks Tristan. No, no politics in there, so far as I know ... but you never know what might be simmering away under the surface, do you? Perhaps it's a subliminal thing.

Cheers

David

[David]

I had a look at your thread on "one of these elsewheres'" and it didn't half make me chuckle. You spoke of me "messing about with chatbots", which makes it sound like something very dirty that my wife or perhaps other poets would be mad about if she or they found out.

Is AI in poetry something that needs a moderating strategy? Can you cheat at reviewing? It felt like cheating a little bit the first time I ever used a rhyming dictionary but I guess we all do it now.

Something that might make the more self assured Eratospherian a little bit jittery is I could ask ChatGPT to review a poem in the critting style of W T Clark simply by feeding it a few examples. I'm not saying it'd be perfect but it'd certainly be enough for the doubters to give it a second thought.

Hi Morph. Sorry, that did it make it sound like a cheeky little bit on the side, which trivialises the issue somewhat. My apologies.

I do think it feels more like "cheating" - if that's a meaningful concept here - than using a rhyming dictionary. Way more, actually, but maybe that's my old-fashioned side talking.

Ah, W T Clark - John will remember him. There are (at least) three things to say about him: (a) he is (or can be) a very good poet; (b) he is (I think) a very serious young man; and (c) he is (or can be) a bit of an arse. All those things may well be connected.

Getting ChatGPT to review a poem in the critting style of W T Clark does seem a bit transgressive, though. Invasive, even. I can well imagine what ChatGPT might come up with, if briefed to write a poem in my "style". It doesn't bear too much thinking about. (Seth Crook, who will be remembered by older members here - I sound like the Chairman of P G Wodehouse's golf club - is shortly having a poem published with the title "For David Callin who likes the word 'Old'" He's got me bang to rights. I do - in poems, at least.)

I say again, these are murky waters - I had no idea how murky until you enlightened me in this thread.

Cheers

David

[Morpheus]

David, I realise with hindsight I should have probably asked if you were okay with me putting your poem through an engine. I guess I got a bit carried away because of the subject matter but I wasn't meaning to be transgressive in any way. This poem is now part of the matrix due to my misdemeanor and please accept my sincerest apologies.

Going back to my question, perhaps we do need clear guidelines on what is acceptable from the moderation team?

[jisbell00]

Hi David,

All I can say is, saying goodbye to the Eratosphere has a) considerably lowered my blood pressure and b) I would argue, improved my poetry. I have since removed most of the suggestions I remember receiving on that site, some from W.T. Clark, and I think my poems are the better for it.

I did get some very good suggestions from Aaron Poochigian though.

Cheers,
John

[David]

David, I realise with hindsight I should have probably asked if you were okay with me putting your poem through an engine. I guess I got a bit carried away because of the subject matter but I wasn't meaning to be transgressive in any way. This poem is now part of the matrix due to my misdemeanor and please accept my sincerest apologies.

Going back to my question, perhaps we do need clear guidelines on what is acceptable from the moderation team?

No, no worries there, Morph. I don't object to what you did to my poem. I was fascinated, and I don't mind at all.

It was just in relation to WTC, who is at a rather greater remove.

So fret not. All is well.

David