(SHA 6) Move Along Now (v2)
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v2
Move Along Now
No more marching for you darkie.
Less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
or just who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither.
You best be careful. Mind your tongue.
Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
boy, this was a White Man's War.
(Peace Parade, London, July 1919)
_____________________
Move Along Now
No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
best you be careful, mind your tongue.
Listen to the crowds all cheering,
this whole country knows the score.
Don't matter how you served with honour
boy, this was a White Man's War.
(Victory Parade, London, July 1919)
______________________
Victory Parade
(July 1919)
No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died at the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
ain't you paying no attention?
Look at all these people cheering.
The whole country knows the score.
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's War.
.
v2
Move Along Now
No more marching for you darkie.
Less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
or just who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither.
You best be careful. Mind your tongue.
Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
boy, this was a White Man's War.
(Peace Parade, London, July 1919)
_____________________
Move Along Now
No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died on the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
best you be careful, mind your tongue.
Listen to the crowds all cheering,
this whole country knows the score.
Don't matter how you served with honour
boy, this was a White Man's War.
(Victory Parade, London, July 1919)
______________________
Victory Parade
(July 1919)
No more marching for you
darkie, less it's back where you come from.
That ain't coal dust, won't wash off,
it colours everything you done.
Don't matter if you fought at Flanders,
don't matter who died at the Somme,
Palestine, don't matter neither,
ain't you paying no attention?
Look at all these people cheering.
The whole country knows the score.
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's War.
.
Last edited by NotQuiteSure on Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:15 pm, edited 10 times in total.
The voice is convincing Not, an effective break on L1, but the concluding line is not insightful. Perhaps if the poem could be personalised, individuals with names and specific descriptions, rather than generalised references, that concluding line would be more felt.
What struck me in this article was the comment Where are the Africans graves?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28836752
best
mac
What struck me in this article was the comment Where are the Africans graves?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28836752
best
mac
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I wonder how much this was influenced by Trump's latest advice to congresswomen of colour?
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
- twoleftfeet
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Hello,NQS
No suggestions as to the actual text.
I may be reading this all wrong,but to make it ring true I have to imagine the Prez or whoever talking about all people of colour, not just Afro-Americans - as you well know,the USA didn't enter WW1 until 1917.
I think it would be better to set it in the 1946 parade, and just stick with Afro-Americans and Native Americans.
Just my view.
Regards
Geoff
PS I saw (or read?) recently about a brawl outside an English pub in 1944:
Some US military policemen tried to arrest some Afro-American soldiers for popping in for a pint,but the English patrons
weren't having it!
No suggestions as to the actual text.
I may be reading this all wrong,but to make it ring true I have to imagine the Prez or whoever talking about all people of colour, not just Afro-Americans - as you well know,the USA didn't enter WW1 until 1917.
I think it would be better to set it in the 1946 parade, and just stick with Afro-Americans and Native Americans.
Just my view.
Regards
Geoff
PS I saw (or read?) recently about a brawl outside an English pub in 1944:
Some US military policemen tried to arrest some Afro-American soldiers for popping in for a pint,but the English patrons
weren't having it!
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?
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Hi mac,
thanks for the read, and the link (loads more like that out there).
The ending relates to this, from the Guradnia: "Enthusiasm for the battle was widespread across the Caribbean. While some declared it a white man's war, leaders and thinkers such as the Jamaican Marcus Garvey said that young men from the islands should fight with the British in order to prove their loyalty and to be treated as equals."
I've tweaked and changed the title, hopefully who the speaker is should be a bit clearer now.
Hi ray,
the second line, almost certainly. Always nice to hear a golden oldie.
Thanks both.
Regards, Not.
.
Hi mac,
thanks for the read, and the link (loads more like that out there).
The ending relates to this, from the Guradnia: "Enthusiasm for the battle was widespread across the Caribbean. While some declared it a white man's war, leaders and thinkers such as the Jamaican Marcus Garvey said that young men from the islands should fight with the British in order to prove their loyalty and to be treated as equals."
I've tweaked and changed the title, hopefully who the speaker is should be a bit clearer now.
Hi ray,
the second line, almost certainly. Always nice to hear a golden oldie.
Thanks both.
Regards, Not.
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Hi Geoff,
I rather think you have got the wrong end of this particular stick
Trump latest pronouncements notwithstanding, this was prompted by a BBC4 program
on a black Scottish soldier called Arthur Roberts and the 'revelation' (to me) that in the
main victory parades of 1919, in England - the one in July, and the earlier one for/of
Dominion Troops in May - all who marched were white. The Dominion was 'redefined'
as only Canada, Australia/NZ and (white) South Africa. The West Indians, Africans,
Indians (etc) were effectively 'white-washed' out of the picture. Not to mention all
the other black/coloured British soldiers who also served (most famously Walter Tull).
(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)
Regards, ¬.
.
Hi Geoff,
I rather think you have got the wrong end of this particular stick
Trump latest pronouncements notwithstanding, this was prompted by a BBC4 program
on a black Scottish soldier called Arthur Roberts and the 'revelation' (to me) that in the
main victory parades of 1919, in England - the one in July, and the earlier one for/of
Dominion Troops in May - all who marched were white. The Dominion was 'redefined'
as only Canada, Australia/NZ and (white) South Africa. The West Indians, Africans,
Indians (etc) were effectively 'white-washed' out of the picture. Not to mention all
the other black/coloured British soldiers who also served (most famously Walter Tull).
(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)
Regards, ¬.
.
Last edited by NotQuiteSure on Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Not, it’s good but I struggle with it.
“this was a White Man's War”
Would your average Tommy have said this in the immediate aftermath of WW1?
Was this really the prevailing sentiment of fighting men who had shared the trenches with the soldiers from the Commonwealth, had fought and died with them? I know there was racism still, of course, but would it have been expressed in such terms at a victory parade? I know the point is that many such heroes were not allowed to attend, but was this really due to popular demand ? I’m no expert, and could be wrong, but there are historical suppositions here I can’t overlook sufficiently to truly ‘buy’ the poem.
Ta,
Luke
“this was a White Man's War”
Would your average Tommy have said this in the immediate aftermath of WW1?
Was this really the prevailing sentiment of fighting men who had shared the trenches with the soldiers from the Commonwealth, had fought and died with them? I know there was racism still, of course, but would it have been expressed in such terms at a victory parade? I know the point is that many such heroes were not allowed to attend, but was this really due to popular demand ? I’m no expert, and could be wrong, but there are historical suppositions here I can’t overlook sufficiently to truly ‘buy’ the poem.
Ta,
Luke
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Hi Luke,
good to hear from you again, been awhile.
In answer to your questions, allow me to direct you here:
https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/black-servicemen-unsung-heroes-of-the-first-world-war/
the Racism After the War section in particular (and the Peter Fryer quote).
Regards, Not.
.
Hi Luke,
good to hear from you again, been awhile.
In answer to your questions, allow me to direct you here:
https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/black-servicemen-unsung-heroes-of-the-first-world-war/
the Racism After the War section in particular (and the Peter Fryer quote).
Regards, Not.
.
I didn't realise that, like the angle. To reinforce the exclusion, and some irony, an option...(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's World War.
- twoleftfeet
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Yes,it's clearer in the revision,NQS.NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:34 am
(My N is a policeman denying a veteran the opportunity to march because of his colour
- hopefully this is a bit more apparent in the revision.)
Regards, ¬.
I'm still not convinced about the use of the word "boy" by a working-class Brit,at least not in a racist way:
It would be used by an older man to put a "wet behind the ears" youngster down,regardless of race.
I certainly experienced it growing up.
An English plantation owner in Kenya to one of his house servants,yes - that would sound about right.
Regards
Geoff
PS Do you only concentrate on WW1?
This is the amazing story of Jack Nissenthal from WW2. I'm surprised that nobody has made a blockbuster film about it!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/44/a2665244.shtml
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?
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Hi mac,
thanks for returning.
I didn't realise that, like the angle.
Thanks. Is it a bit more apparent now?
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's World War.
Four Ws? And James Brown?
Regards, Not.
_________________________
Hi Geoff,
thanks for returning and pleased that it's clearer.
As to 'boy', I mainly wanted it for the comparison with 'Man' ... Still, any alternatives? Most of the ones I've looked at originate in the US, and I've no idea if they were used here during this period. The always popular N word would just unbalance everything (though its use is well attested). Maybe I just need to just switch to
cos this, this was the White Man's War ?
(Though it's a lot of 'this' for one verse.)
WW1 only? No, I've no especial interest, I suppose it has just been more zeitgeisty of late.
That link was fascinating, thanks. Seems he was swept under the same rug as Bletchley. I'd not bother with a film though, but a nice six or eight part series, now that's another matter.
Regards, Not
.
Hi mac,
thanks for returning.
I didn't realise that, like the angle.
Thanks. Is it a bit more apparent now?
Don't matter that you served with honour,
cos boy, this was a White Man's World War.
Four Ws? And James Brown?
Regards, Not.
_________________________
Hi Geoff,
thanks for returning and pleased that it's clearer.
As to 'boy', I mainly wanted it for the comparison with 'Man' ... Still, any alternatives? Most of the ones I've looked at originate in the US, and I've no idea if they were used here during this period. The always popular N word would just unbalance everything (though its use is well attested). Maybe I just need to just switch to
cos this, this was the White Man's War ?
(Though it's a lot of 'this' for one verse.)
WW1 only? No, I've no especial interest, I suppose it has just been more zeitgeisty of late.
That link was fascinating, thanks. Seems he was swept under the same rug as Bletchley. I'd not bother with a film though, but a nice six or eight part series, now that's another matter.
Regards, Not
.
- twoleftfeet
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I think "boy" is fine in V2,NQS,NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:30 pm.
Hi Geoff,
thanks for returning and pleased that it's clearer.
As to 'boy', I mainly wanted it for the comparison with 'Man' ... Still, any alternatives? Most of the ones I've looked at originate in the US, and I've no idea if they were used here during this period. The always popular N word would just unbalance everything (though its use is well attested). Maybe I just need to just switch to
cos this, this was the White Man's War ?
(Though it's a lot of 'this' for one verse.)
WW1 only? No, I've no especial interest, I suppose it has just been more zeitgeisty of late.
That link was fascinating, thanks. Seems he was swept under the same rug as Bletchley. I'd not bother with a film though, but a nice six or eight part series, now that's another matter.
Regards, Not
.
given that your intention was not to imply "racism" in that word.After all it is still a patronising and insulting term to use to any man who risked his life on a WW1 battlefield.
What amazed me about the Jack Nissenthal operation was that the Canadian "minders" were under orders to shoot him if he looked like being captured.He knew it but still went ahead.
The same was true,I think,of the "Code Talkers" - Navajo indians who volunteered for service in the Pacific campaign.
Their language was unknown outside the USA and was totally impenetrable to any cryptanalysis.A film WAS made of that story (WINDTALKERS) - unfortunately it was just a vehicle for Nicholas Cage and deservedly bombed at the box-office.
Cheers
Geoff
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?
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Hi Geoff,
think I may have found an etymological justification for 'boy'
"Used slightingly of young men in Middle English, also in
familiar or contemptuous use of criminal toughs or men in the
armed services." Though it may be stretching things some
Considering, or as JJ would have it, fiddling with
Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
this, this was a White Man's War.
(among far to many variations!)
I remember that film, though I'd blocked Cage from my memory!
Now it's going to bug me if I'd learnt of Code Talkers through that,
or from Tony Hillerman, damn. Do you recall this heartwarming
moment? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195
_____________
Regards both, Not.
(minor change to title).
.
Hi Geoff,
think I may have found an etymological justification for 'boy'
"Used slightingly of young men in Middle English, also in
familiar or contemptuous use of criminal toughs or men in the
armed services." Though it may be stretching things some
Considering, or as JJ would have it, fiddling with
Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
this, this was a White Man's War.
(among far to many variations!)
I remember that film, though I'd blocked Cage from my memory!
Now it's going to bug me if I'd learnt of Code Talkers through that,
or from Tony Hillerman, damn. Do you recall this heartwarming
moment? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195
_____________
Unlikely, but thanks
Regards both, Not.
(minor change to title).
.
- twoleftfeet
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I'm not at all surprised,NQS - it makes perfect sense to me: to remind someone of where they are in the pecking order.NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm.
Hi Geoff,
think I may have found an etymological justification for 'boy'
"Used slightingly of young men in Middle English, also in
familiar or contemptuous use of criminal toughs or men in the
armed services." Though it may be stretching things some
.
tbh,NQS - I'd stick with "boy".NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm.
Considering, or as JJ would have it, fiddling with
Listen to the country cheering.
You think they don't know the score?
Don't matter how you served with honour,
this, this was a White Man's War.
(among far to many variations!)
.
A "put-down",even a non-racial one,is better than none at all.
Indeed I do!NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:33 pm.
Do you recall this heartwarming
moment? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42146195
.
Cheers
Geoff
Instead of just sitting on the fence - why not stand in the middle of the road?
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Thanks Luke.
Retraction appreciated
Regards, Not
.
Thanks Luke.
Retraction appreciated
Regards, Not
.
I like this piece the story behind it was beautiful and rather sad though.
- JJWilliamson
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Reminds me of Christy Moore album I listened to recently, Not, and the song "Go, Move, Shift".
A worthy poem and a terrible indictment on the accepted attitudes of the day. It's SO bloody sad.
I think your revision has tightened this piece very nicely and I'm of the opinion that "Boy" is absolutely fine.
It speaks of perceived superiority and condescension, and it's often regarded as a put down, even to this day.
Looks done to me.
Best
JJ
A worthy poem and a terrible indictment on the accepted attitudes of the day. It's SO bloody sad.
I think your revision has tightened this piece very nicely and I'm of the opinion that "Boy" is absolutely fine.
It speaks of perceived superiority and condescension, and it's often regarded as a put down, even to this day.
Looks done to me.
Best
JJ
Long time a child and still a child
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Been a while, but I refer you back to
https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23761
Thanks Poet.
Hi RC,
any similarity to Americans is entirely coincidental
Thanks for the read.
Had to youtube this. Prefer the version with the (criminally) underused Sinéad O'Connor.JJWilliamson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 amReminds me of Christy Moore album I listened to recently, Not, and the song "Go, Move, Shift".
'the day' ? As ray pointed out, the attitudes are all too contemporary.JJWilliamson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 amA worthy poem and a terrible indictment on the accepted attitudes of the day. It's SO bloody sad.
True, but it does seem to send a lot of people (especially Americans) to the Deep South.JJWilliamson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 amI think your revision has tightened this piece very nicely and I'm of the opinion that "Boy" is absolutely fine.
It speaks of perceived superiority and condescension, and it's often regarded as a put down, even to this day.
As if we can't do racism here
Thanks, final (?) draft posted.
Thanks all.
Regards, Not
.
Ah yes. I remember now. I liked them. I don't like this one as much, but I think it could work well in a series. (So if I search for SHA 4 and SHA 5 I will find them?)NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:50 amBeen a while, but I refer you back to
https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23761
Cheers
David
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Hi David.
though you have commented on SHA4
(recently bumped due to unrelated ill-manners)
Here's SHA 5
https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23948&p=203255&hilit=sha+stretcher#p203255
Regards, Not
.
Hi David.
Any reason (that may be used to improve it) ?
Yep,
though you have commented on SHA4
(recently bumped due to unrelated ill-manners)
Here's SHA 5
https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23948&p=203255&hilit=sha+stretcher#p203255
Regards, Not
.
So I have! But I don't remember the ill manners at all.NotQuiteSure wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:00 am.
Yep,
though you have commented on SHA4 :)
(recently bumped due to unrelated ill-manners)
Okay, will have a look at SHA 5.