Four Sea Shanties
i.
Make me an offer and we will do business,
beneath the open heavens, in the sight of the gods.
Taste, color, texture: I sell those things,
with a whiff of danger, at the high seas’ price.
I ply my trade where the great ships anchor,
bringing saffron and turmeric, cotton and indigo.
Faces come and go but trade is eternal:
the buyer and the seller, the point of exchange.
ii.
Low water. Over the dunes,
the tracks of birds. Silence
but for the breath of air, the small
lap of water. Who
can track the birds in flight?
They are departed.
The shark-blue water
extends to where
it turns to beaten gold:
the floor of vision.
Will an answer come?
iii.
They cast their nets on the blue water and what happens, happens.
They’re up to their waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from their wrists through the ozone-scented air:
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine over
the shining shallows. It is hard to find
words for the work of muscle in their shoulders,
their backs, their thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
They could do this all day and sometimes do just that.
iv.
On the fire of the shoreline,
where oceans crash and burn:
where the stunned gull calls
and all we do is futile:
I will expect you. Take a break
from getting and from spending.
Appear, like Zeus or Aphrodite,
make my heart glad. It buckles at the weight.
Four Sea Shanties
-
NotQuiteSure
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- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John,
The title lead, almost immediately, to a slight sense of disappointment, for me. Shanty conjures up certain things (rhythm most notably) and that eludes me here. (Oh, and it seemed to me there were only three of them!
)
Hints of Walcott though, which is no bad thing.
S1-2
Might you switch stanzas one and two around. Two has a more 'grabbing' opening line (though 'whiff' is a bit cliched, don't you think? And weak. Given the turmeric I'd have thought 'spice of danger'.)
Make me an offer and we will do business,
beneath the open heavens, in the sight of the gods.
Taste, color, texture – I sell those things,
with a whiff of danger, with the high seas’ price.
I ply my trade
where the great ships anchor,
bringing cotton and indigo,
saffron and turmeric.
S3-5.
We cast our nets on the blue water and what happens, happens. ... blue, blue water to match happens, happens?
Will the sea yield up its load? It’s hard to say ....I didn't like the enjambment, and is 'load' the right term?
before we start hauling on those nets. We are
up to our waist in the breakers, and the nets ...... do you need both 'nets'? The first, given 'hauling' and the context seems pretty superfluous.
spin from our wrists through the ozone-scented air – ..... 'ozone-scented' seems a bit of a mouthful, why not just 'ozone air'? Also, the first line of S3 suggests that the nets have already been cast.
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine over
whatever these shallows offer. This is not .............feels flat and repetitive: 'yield up it's load, now 'these shallows offer'.
a new activity for us. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in our shoulders,
our backs, our thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
We could do this all day and sometimes do just that. ......And? It may be hard to find the word, but it would be nice to think that someone tried.
S6-9
Just to say Aphrodite confused, doesn't she usually emerge (from the waves?)
It feel quite overwritten for all it's sparseness. And that 'Address it' line baffled me (but maybe it makes sense to the religious?)
'crash and burn' is rather jarring. As is 'take a break', phrases from an entirely different lexicon, it seems to me.
I'd cut it back to this.
Low water.
Over the dunes,
the tracks of birds.
Who can track the birds in flight?
The shark-blue water turns to beaten gold:
I will expect you. Make my heart glad. It buckles
at the weight.
Regards, Not
.
The title lead, almost immediately, to a slight sense of disappointment, for me. Shanty conjures up certain things (rhythm most notably) and that eludes me here. (Oh, and it seemed to me there were only three of them!
)Hints of Walcott though, which is no bad thing.
S1-2
Might you switch stanzas one and two around. Two has a more 'grabbing' opening line (though 'whiff' is a bit cliched, don't you think? And weak. Given the turmeric I'd have thought 'spice of danger'.)
Make me an offer and we will do business,
beneath the open heavens, in the sight of the gods.
Taste, color, texture – I sell those things,
with a whiff of danger, with the high seas’ price.
I ply my trade
where the great ships anchor,
bringing cotton and indigo,
saffron and turmeric.
S3-5.
We cast our nets on the blue water and what happens, happens. ... blue, blue water to match happens, happens?
Will the sea yield up its load? It’s hard to say ....I didn't like the enjambment, and is 'load' the right term?
before we start hauling on those nets. We are
up to our waist in the breakers, and the nets ...... do you need both 'nets'? The first, given 'hauling' and the context seems pretty superfluous.
spin from our wrists through the ozone-scented air – ..... 'ozone-scented' seems a bit of a mouthful, why not just 'ozone air'? Also, the first line of S3 suggests that the nets have already been cast.
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine over
whatever these shallows offer. This is not .............feels flat and repetitive: 'yield up it's load, now 'these shallows offer'.
a new activity for us. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in our shoulders,
our backs, our thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
We could do this all day and sometimes do just that. ......And? It may be hard to find the word, but it would be nice to think that someone tried.
S6-9
Just to say Aphrodite confused, doesn't she usually emerge (from the waves?)
It feel quite overwritten for all it's sparseness. And that 'Address it' line baffled me (but maybe it makes sense to the religious?)
'crash and burn' is rather jarring. As is 'take a break', phrases from an entirely different lexicon, it seems to me.
I'd cut it back to this.
Low water.
Over the dunes,
the tracks of birds.
Who can track the birds in flight?
The shark-blue water turns to beaten gold:
I will expect you. Make my heart glad. It buckles
at the weight.
Regards, Not
.
Hi Not,
Thank you for the detailed commentary. S 6-9 break in the middle, into two different short poems. That vanished when I lost the page break! I have reformatted.
We're heading into town now, so I'll have to return for more detailed responses. I appreciate the thought that you've put in!
Cheers,
John
Thank you for the detailed commentary. S 6-9 break in the middle, into two different short poems. That vanished when I lost the page break! I have reformatted.
We're heading into town now, so I'll have to return for more detailed responses. I appreciate the thought that you've put in!
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi Not,
I think Walcott is brilliant, so it’s very flattering to be compared to him! Thank you!
I know what you mean about sea shanties, but I think the title encourages folks to look for rhythm in my pieces, which I welcome.
I see why you might like to switch S1 and S2, but I like the rhythm and the reveal as I now have it. It starts tight and becomes more expansive. Whiff of danger doesn’t bother me – it makes me think of whiff of grapeshot, that famous quote.
Repeating blue doesn’t work for my ear. I’ll have to think about load – maybe hoard would work. I also see what you mean about nets repeating, it feels awkward. I’ve edited a bit.
I like ozone-scented air , and don’t mind repeating the casting of the nets.
I’ve changed whatever these shallows offer, and this piece in general has been tweaked. I like the last line fine though.
You have a point about Aphrodite. I have an idea for that.
Address I mean in the sense of speak to, not put an address on. I do hope that won’t confuse folks. These pieces are all about rhythm, and I like the rhythm there.
Where oceans crash and burn I like in an absolute sense. I see what you mean about take a break, but it goes with getting and spending, Wordsworth’s target, and I like that contrast with the mercenary world that we inhabit. The gods are a different kettle of fish.
I’m hoping that seeing S6-9 as two pieces gave you a somewhat new perspective.
Cheers,
John
I think Walcott is brilliant, so it’s very flattering to be compared to him! Thank you!
I know what you mean about sea shanties, but I think the title encourages folks to look for rhythm in my pieces, which I welcome.
I see why you might like to switch S1 and S2, but I like the rhythm and the reveal as I now have it. It starts tight and becomes more expansive. Whiff of danger doesn’t bother me – it makes me think of whiff of grapeshot, that famous quote.
Repeating blue doesn’t work for my ear. I’ll have to think about load – maybe hoard would work. I also see what you mean about nets repeating, it feels awkward. I’ve edited a bit.
I like ozone-scented air , and don’t mind repeating the casting of the nets.
I’ve changed whatever these shallows offer, and this piece in general has been tweaked. I like the last line fine though.
You have a point about Aphrodite. I have an idea for that.
Address I mean in the sense of speak to, not put an address on. I do hope that won’t confuse folks. These pieces are all about rhythm, and I like the rhythm there.
Where oceans crash and burn I like in an absolute sense. I see what you mean about take a break, but it goes with getting and spending, Wordsworth’s target, and I like that contrast with the mercenary world that we inhabit. The gods are a different kettle of fish.
I’m hoping that seeing S6-9 as two pieces gave you a somewhat new perspective.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John.
I know what you mean about sea shanties, but I think the title encourages folks to look for rhythm in my pieces, which I welcome.
I still think it sets up an expectation that isn't met. Ultimately they're just not very (work-) song-like.
I see why you might like to switch S1 and S2, but I like the rhythm and the reveal as I now have it.
Would you consider cutting 'bringing'?
I ply my trade
where great ships anchor,
cotton and indigo,
saffron and turmeric.
Without it the verse can be read as both a description of that the ships bring, but about what N sells, you might hear him calling out his wares. (Still think they're better the other way mind. )
I’ll have to think about load – maybe hoard would work.
I wonder if you actually need anything after 'yield'?
We cast our nets on the blue water and what happens, happens.
Will the sea yield? That’s hard to say,
before we start our haul. We're up
to our waist in the breakers, and the nets
I also see what you mean about nets repeating, it feels awkward. I’ve edited a bit.
Not sure this works. Just because the nets are heavy doesn't mean they've caught anything ... useful.
I’ve changed whatever these shallows offer, and this piece in general has been tweaked. I like the last line fine though.
It's all a bit too romantic, for me. They're aren't fishing for the joy of it.
You have a point about Aphrodite. I have an idea for that.
I like the change, but Zeus bothers me. Deity is a known rapist after all.
Address I mean in the sense of speak to, not put an address on. I do hope that won’t confuse folks.
I got that, but 'address it, address it' felt like an injunction and took me out of the poem.
I’m hoping that seeing S6-9 as two pieces gave you a somewhat new perspective.
Somewhat, but that's largely down to how disruptive I find 'address it'. Would it be possible to start the poem with the 'shark blue' section, part iii?
Regards, Not
.
I know what you mean about sea shanties, but I think the title encourages folks to look for rhythm in my pieces, which I welcome.
I still think it sets up an expectation that isn't met. Ultimately they're just not very (work-) song-like.
I see why you might like to switch S1 and S2, but I like the rhythm and the reveal as I now have it.
Would you consider cutting 'bringing'?
I ply my trade
where great ships anchor,
cotton and indigo,
saffron and turmeric.
Without it the verse can be read as both a description of that the ships bring, but about what N sells, you might hear him calling out his wares. (Still think they're better the other way mind.
)I’ll have to think about load – maybe hoard would work.
I wonder if you actually need anything after 'yield'?
We cast our nets on the blue water and what happens, happens.
Will the sea yield? That’s hard to say,
before we start our haul. We're up
to our waist in the breakers, and the nets
I also see what you mean about nets repeating, it feels awkward. I’ve edited a bit.
Not sure this works. Just because the nets are heavy doesn't mean they've caught anything ... useful.
I’ve changed whatever these shallows offer, and this piece in general has been tweaked. I like the last line fine though.
It's all a bit too romantic, for me. They're aren't fishing for the joy of it.
You have a point about Aphrodite. I have an idea for that.
I like the change, but Zeus bothers me. Deity is a known rapist after all.
Address I mean in the sense of speak to, not put an address on. I do hope that won’t confuse folks.
I got that, but 'address it, address it' felt like an injunction and took me out of the poem.
I’m hoping that seeing S6-9 as two pieces gave you a somewhat new perspective.
Somewhat, but that's largely down to how disruptive I find 'address it'. Would it be possible to start the poem with the 'shark blue' section, part iii?
Regards, Not
.
Hi Not,
Thanks for sticking with this.
Ah, but they are work songs, two of them at least. That may be why the title came to me. And the rhythm of the sea is fundamental to them. Also, as you note the title hooked you in. I don’t have a better one.
I tried I sell instead of bringing but have that in S2. I like it as is, I think.
I’ve tried your idea of cutting after yield. It could work.
I agree, the haul may be empty. But they start it every time.
I changed shining to working shallows. It is aware of beauty in the work, but that doesn’t bug me – cf. the painting at end here.
Zeus is a rapist, but I trust that line as I heard it. I’ve put it back, making the two deities equals.
Address it is gone, I’ll try that. I’m not yet ready to put shark-blue first, I think. I like the final question at end.
Cheers,
John
Thanks for sticking with this.
Ah, but they are work songs, two of them at least. That may be why the title came to me. And the rhythm of the sea is fundamental to them. Also, as you note the title hooked you in. I don’t have a better one.
I tried I sell instead of bringing but have that in S2. I like it as is, I think.
I’ve tried your idea of cutting after yield. It could work.
I agree, the haul may be empty. But they start it every time.
I changed shining to working shallows. It is aware of beauty in the work, but that doesn’t bug me – cf. the painting at end here.
Zeus is a rapist, but I trust that line as I heard it. I’ve put it back, making the two deities equals.
Address it is gone, I’ll try that. I’m not yet ready to put shark-blue first, I think. I like the final question at end.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John,
Given your last line, I still think that starting at s2 makes more sense (beginning and ending with 'make me') And having iii and iv so close together makes it hard to separate them (still.)
i.
Make me an offer and we will do business,
here beneath heaven in the sight of the gods.
Taste, color, texture – I sell all of those things,
with a whiff of danger, with the high seas’ price.
My trade I ply where the great ships anchor,
My trade is cotton, indigo, saffron and turmeric.
iii
These feel like two separate pieces!
Low water. Over the dunes,
the tracks of birds. Silence
but for the breath of air, the small
lap of water. Who
can track the birds in flight?
They are departed.
The shark-blue water
extends to where
it turns to beaten gold:
the floor of vision.
Will an answer come?
ii.
I still think this is too romantic, words like 'sunshine' and 'splash'. What happens to skin that has been immersed in salt-water all day (out in the sun(shine)?) And why are they doing it. There's no sense of need/necessity here. It's hard work and this seems a bit too ... genteel. As to the painting, I take your point, but I'd ask is the winnower seeing the 'beauty' or is he too busy/tired?
We cast on the blue water and what happens, happens.
up to our waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from our wrists through the ozone-scented air –
It’s hard to find words for the pull of muscle
in our shoulders, our backs, our thighs –
the splash of deepening water – the beauty
of the nets – deployed like sunshine –
the tug of fish. For the hope of what
the sea will yield.
iv.
On the blue of the shoreline,
where Ocean crashes and burns –
where the stunned gulls call
and all we do is futile –
I will expect you. Take a break
from getting and from spending.
Descend like Zeus or Aphrodite,
make my heart glad. It buckles at the weight.
(Why Zeus? How does he make a heart glad? I think 'rise' was better. Makes more sense in the context of oceans/seas. Of course you might go with Arrive like ...)
Regards, Not
.
Given your last line, I still think that starting at s2 makes more sense (beginning and ending with 'make me') And having iii and iv so close together makes it hard to separate them (still.)
i.
Make me an offer and we will do business,
here beneath heaven in the sight of the gods.
Taste, color, texture – I sell all of those things,
with a whiff of danger, with the high seas’ price.
My trade I ply where the great ships anchor,
My trade is cotton, indigo, saffron and turmeric.
iii
These feel like two separate pieces!
Low water. Over the dunes,
the tracks of birds. Silence
but for the breath of air, the small
lap of water. Who
can track the birds in flight?
They are departed.
The shark-blue water
extends to where
it turns to beaten gold:
the floor of vision.
Will an answer come?
ii.
I still think this is too romantic, words like 'sunshine' and 'splash'. What happens to skin that has been immersed in salt-water all day (out in the sun(shine)?) And why are they doing it. There's no sense of need/necessity here. It's hard work and this seems a bit too ... genteel. As to the painting, I take your point, but I'd ask is the winnower seeing the 'beauty' or is he too busy/tired?
We cast on the blue water and what happens, happens.
up to our waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from our wrists through the ozone-scented air –
It’s hard to find words for the pull of muscle
in our shoulders, our backs, our thighs –
the splash of deepening water – the beauty
of the nets – deployed like sunshine –
the tug of fish. For the hope of what
the sea will yield.
iv.
On the blue of the shoreline,
where Ocean crashes and burns –
where the stunned gulls call
and all we do is futile –
I will expect you. Take a break
from getting and from spending.
Descend like Zeus or Aphrodite,
make my heart glad. It buckles at the weight.
(Why Zeus? How does he make a heart glad? I think 'rise' was better. Makes more sense in the context of oceans/seas. Of course you might go with Arrive like ...)
Regards, Not
.
Hi Not,
I’ve flipped S1 and S2 as you propose. Thank you!
I also moved S5-S6 up to 3-4, I’m not sure that’s what you were suggesting but it does usefully separate shanties 3 and 4, and I think it works.
The new S5-S6 I’ve edited slightly, it’s shorter but not as short as you would have it. I see what you’re doing with your proposed last line, but I want to focus for the moment on the early morning, and the start and hope of fishing. I chatted with a fisherman in Guadeloupe who did just this, and he seemed both open to beauty and less tense than mellow. He projected contentment, and the poem was honoring him and his work.
I agree about descend. I’ve gone with Come in for now.
Cheers,
John
I’ve flipped S1 and S2 as you propose. Thank you!
I also moved S5-S6 up to 3-4, I’m not sure that’s what you were suggesting but it does usefully separate shanties 3 and 4, and I think it works.
The new S5-S6 I’ve edited slightly, it’s shorter but not as short as you would have it. I see what you’re doing with your proposed last line, but I want to focus for the moment on the early morning, and the start and hope of fishing. I chatted with a fisherman in Guadeloupe who did just this, and he seemed both open to beauty and less tense than mellow. He projected contentment, and the poem was honoring him and his work.
I agree about descend. I’ve gone with Come in for now.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John,
seems almost there, to me. I like the new ordering (that is what I was suggesting) and the shorter S5-6.
Would you consider numbering the sections (just to avoid any future confusion?)
Regarding the fisherman/men. You say 'he seemed' but the verse begins 'we' - if it were
They cast their nets on the blue water and what happens, happens.
They are up to their waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from their wrists through the ozone-scented air –
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine over
the shining shallows. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in their shoulders,
their backs, their thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
They could do this all day and sometimes do just that.
I don't think it would be quite to problematic. It's the artists perspective (as in the painting) not the fisherman's and so can't be argued with. Actually, it reads a bit like a description of a painting with the pronoun switch.
Or, alternatively (and with the proper punctuation)
up to the waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from wrists through the ozone-scented air –
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine
over the shining shallows. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in shoulders, backs,
thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
They/We could do this all day and sometimes do just that.
nets cast on the blue water and what happens, happens.
(this was just a quick cut and paste (though it might look quite good without any punctuation except the em dashes.))
'deployed' is a bit of an odd duck though.
The last two niggles are in iv.
The 'blue' of the opening line doesn't convince (and compares poorly with the earlier 'shark-blue')
And 'Come in' isn't working (and I suspect you know this )
Regards, Not
.
seems almost there, to me. I like the new ordering (that is what I was suggesting) and the shorter S5-6.
Would you consider numbering the sections (just to avoid any future confusion?)
Regarding the fisherman/men. You say 'he seemed' but the verse begins 'we' - if it were
They cast their nets on the blue water and what happens, happens.
They are up to their waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from their wrists through the ozone-scented air –
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine over
the shining shallows. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in their shoulders,
their backs, their thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
They could do this all day and sometimes do just that.
I don't think it would be quite to problematic. It's the artists perspective (as in the painting) not the fisherman's and so can't be argued with. Actually, it reads a bit like a description of a painting with the pronoun switch.
Or, alternatively (and with the proper punctuation)
up to the waist in the breakers, and the nets
spin from wrists through the ozone-scented air –
held by their weights, deployed like sunshine
over the shining shallows. It’s hard to find
words for the pull of muscle in shoulders, backs,
thighs – the splash of deepening water –
the beauty of the nets – the tug of fish.
They/We could do this all day and sometimes do just that.
nets cast on the blue water and what happens, happens.
(this was just a quick cut and paste (though it might look quite good without any punctuation except the em dashes.))
'deployed' is a bit of an odd duck though.
The last two niggles are in iv.
The 'blue' of the opening line doesn't convince (and compares poorly with the earlier 'shark-blue')
And 'Come in' isn't working (and I suspect you know this
)Regards, Not
.
Hi Not,
Thank you for sticking with this. I’ve seemed to turn down some of your thoughts pretty brusquely, but believe me, I have considered all of them, and many of them have I think clearly transformed this poem for the better.
I have now numbered the sections. I also added two lines to shanty I.
I’ve adopted your suggestion of they for the problematic shanty III. My wife agrees with you, and your argument that the observer can be as romantic as they like is a powerful one. I do just regret a tad that shanties are usually sung by those who work on the sea, which the switch from we loses.
Deployed doesn’t bother me. Literally unfolded, in French.
Your last two niggles have been edited. I’ve gone back to descend.
Cheers,
John
Thank you for sticking with this. I’ve seemed to turn down some of your thoughts pretty brusquely, but believe me, I have considered all of them, and many of them have I think clearly transformed this poem for the better.
I have now numbered the sections. I also added two lines to shanty I.
I’ve adopted your suggestion of they for the problematic shanty III. My wife agrees with you, and your argument that the observer can be as romantic as they like is a powerful one. I do just regret a tad that shanties are usually sung by those who work on the sea, which the switch from we loses.
Deployed doesn’t bother me. Literally unfolded, in French.
Your last two niggles have been edited. I’ve gone back to descend.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John,
I like the additions to i (see, so much easier to reference!) - not sure that 'people come and go' is that interesting, but the 'but trade is eternal' is very nice.
The faces may change, but trade is eternal ... / The currencies change, but trade is eternal ...
?
I’ve seemed to turn down some of your thoughts pretty brusquely, but believe me, I have considered all of them, and many of them have I think clearly transformed this poem for the better.
Be a tad disingenuous of me to start complaining about the kettle.
My wife agrees with you,
Knew I had right (or is it might?) on my side.
I do just regret a tad that shanties are usually sung by those who work on the sea, which the switch from we loses.
Well, I've had my say on 'shanties', but I'd add that, nowadays, that simply isn't the case. It's those who don't work the sea who sing them.
Far too ... shallow (ahem) I know, but one title that appealed to me was
The Sea, The Sea, The Sea, The Sea.
I prefer 'arc' to 'blue' - is there a word that might tie in to 'crash and burn' though?
'Descend' still isn't working. I'd go with the simpler 'arrive' or 'appear' or 'emerge' or even, and this is close to one you had earlier, 'come here'.
Oh, one last thought 'stretch' for 'pull' (iii, 6)
Regards, Not
.
I like the additions to i (see, so much easier to reference!) - not sure that 'people come and go' is that interesting, but the 'but trade is eternal' is very nice.
The faces may change, but trade is eternal ... / The currencies change, but trade is eternal ...
?
I’ve seemed to turn down some of your thoughts pretty brusquely, but believe me, I have considered all of them, and many of them have I think clearly transformed this poem for the better.
Be a tad disingenuous of me to start complaining about the kettle.
My wife agrees with you,
Knew I had right (or is it might?) on my side.
I do just regret a tad that shanties are usually sung by those who work on the sea, which the switch from we loses.
Well, I've had my say on 'shanties', but I'd add that, nowadays, that simply isn't the case. It's those who don't work the sea who sing them.
Far too ... shallow (ahem) I know, but one title that appealed to me was
The Sea, The Sea, The Sea, The Sea.
I prefer 'arc' to 'blue' - is there a word that might tie in to 'crash and burn' though?
'Descend' still isn't working. I'd go with the simpler 'arrive' or 'appear' or 'emerge' or even, and this is close to one you had earlier, 'come here'.
Oh, one last thought 'stretch' for 'pull' (iii, 6)
Regards, Not
.
Hi Not,
Glad you feel the poem is taking shape, and glad you like the new couplet in i! I’ve changed people to faces per your suggestion, but can’t do change, I think, with exchange in the next line. There’s also nexus, but I don’t have another word for exchange.
Ah, kettles! Thanks for your understanding, and yes, right and might are evidently on your side!
You make a point about shanties. I like your alternative, which evokes the Greeks who marched with Xenophon – Thalassa, Thalassa! Still, shanties drew you in and I think or at least hope I can keep it.
I’m trying fire of the shoreline for a bit.
Thanks for appear, I think that works for the gods.
I do have a new shanty I’m considering:
Wind and tide and current pull
like sliding rope across our keel.
We’re shipshape, and the rigging holds.
We tack and jibe, we trim our sail.
The sea might be a living thing,
in crest and trough, in fish and whale.
It stirs and settles, slumbering
or waking, and we tell the tale.
if I add it, then I think pull for stretch must go. What do you think of these quatrains?
Cheers,
John
Glad you feel the poem is taking shape, and glad you like the new couplet in i! I’ve changed people to faces per your suggestion, but can’t do change, I think, with exchange in the next line. There’s also nexus, but I don’t have another word for exchange.
Ah, kettles! Thanks for your understanding, and yes, right and might are evidently on your side!
You make a point about shanties. I like your alternative, which evokes the Greeks who marched with Xenophon – Thalassa, Thalassa! Still, shanties drew you in and I think or at least hope I can keep it.
I’m trying fire of the shoreline for a bit.
Thanks for appear, I think that works for the gods.
I do have a new shanty I’m considering:
Wind and tide and current pull
like sliding rope across our keel.
We’re shipshape, and the rigging holds.
We tack and jibe, we trim our sail.
The sea might be a living thing,
in crest and trough, in fish and whale.
It stirs and settles, slumbering
or waking, and we tell the tale.
if I add it, then I think pull for stretch must go. What do you think of these quatrains?
Cheers,
John
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NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John.
There’s also nexus, but I don’t have another word for exchange.
Exchange works. Others will have to bend around it.
You make a point about shanties. I like your alternative, which evokes the Greeks who marched with Xenophon – Thalassa, Thalassa! Still, shanties drew you in and I think or at least hope I can keep it.
I hear the slow turning of the tide.
I’m trying fire of the shoreline for a bit.
Not convinced.
In the clashes on shoreline?
or
In the tumult of the shoreline ?
Thanks for appear, I think that works for the gods.
Reads like something pitched between a plea and a demand, works for me.
if I add it, then I think pull for stretch must go.
how about 'work' for pull?
What do you think of these quatrains?
I like them, but where would they go?
The only words that really stick out are
'shipshape' - it's just too obvious. And
'might' - I can't see that narrator being that equivocal.
The sea, I swear's a living thing ...
I'd also prefer 'haul' to 'pull' in L1.
Regards, Not
.
.
There’s also nexus, but I don’t have another word for exchange.
Exchange works. Others will have to bend around it.
You make a point about shanties. I like your alternative, which evokes the Greeks who marched with Xenophon – Thalassa, Thalassa! Still, shanties drew you in and I think or at least hope I can keep it.
I hear the slow turning of the tide.
I’m trying fire of the shoreline for a bit.
Not convinced.
In the clashes on shoreline?
or
In the tumult of the shoreline ?
Thanks for appear, I think that works for the gods.
Reads like something pitched between a plea and a demand, works for me.
if I add it, then I think pull for stretch must go.
how about 'work' for pull?
What do you think of these quatrains?
I like them, but where would they go?
The only words that really stick out are
'shipshape' - it's just too obvious. And
'might' - I can't see that narrator being that equivocal.
The sea, I swear's a living thing ...
I'd also prefer 'haul' to 'pull' in L1.
Regards, Not
.
.
Hi Not,
Glad you like exchange.
Ah, the slow turning of the tide! That could certainly be the case. For now, it’s Five Sea Shanties.
Tumult is quite lovely. Thank you!
Yeah, I like your word appear as well. They are an apparition.
Work is nice, thanks again!
I’ve put these quatrains at iii, midway and before they. You are right about shipshape and might, they’ve been replaced.
I’ll have to think about haul – I may have too many pulls now.
Cheers,
John
Glad you like exchange.
Ah, the slow turning of the tide! That could certainly be the case. For now, it’s Five Sea Shanties.
Tumult is quite lovely. Thank you!
Yeah, I like your word appear as well. They are an apparition.
Work is nice, thanks again!
I’ve put these quatrains at iii, midway and before they. You are right about shipshape and might, they’ve been replaced.
I’ll have to think about haul – I may have too many pulls now.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm
Hi John.
Yeah, I like your word appear as well. They are an apparition.
Is there a comma missing after it?
Appear, like Zeus or Aphrodite,
make ...
I’ve put these quatrains at iii, midway and before they.
They're not working for me (in this piece) they don't feel part of the whole, somehow. I liked how the question that ended ii seemed to be continued in the previous iii. That it was part of the reason the nets were being cast.
Replacing 'might' with 'like' doesn't feel like much of a change to me. And 'racing' (plus jibe, tack, trim) seems more evocative of a contemporary sailing competition.
Regards, Not
.
Yeah, I like your word appear as well. They are an apparition.
Is there a comma missing after it?
Appear, like Zeus or Aphrodite,
make ...
I’ve put these quatrains at iii, midway and before they.
They're not working for me (in this piece) they don't feel part of the whole, somehow. I liked how the question that ended ii seemed to be continued in the previous iii. That it was part of the reason the nets were being cast.
Replacing 'might' with 'like' doesn't feel like much of a change to me. And 'racing' (plus jibe, tack, trim) seems more evocative of a contemporary sailing competition.
Regards, Not
.
Thanks, Not. I'll add that comma, and have a think about racing and like.
I'm also happy to pull the new quatrains out and put them elsewhere. Thanks for your help in improving them! This piece used to be five shanties, and the new quatrains came to me last night. But the poem seems fine without them.
Cheers,
John
I'm also happy to pull the new quatrains out and put them elsewhere. Thanks for your help in improving them! This piece used to be five shanties, and the new quatrains came to me last night. But the poem seems fine without them.
Cheers,
John
-
NotQuiteSure
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 3514
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:05 pm