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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:38 pm
- Location: The hills are my home, the mountains where I roam.
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles; or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deed, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
-Theodore Roosevelt
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dillingworth
- Prolific Poster
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK
I sound my barbaric YAWP
From the rooftops of the world
-Whitman
or, more controversially, Harold Bloom has got to be one of the greatest living Americans (greatest in the sense of intellect and daring even if you disagree with everything he says)
From the rooftops of the world
-Whitman
or, more controversially, Harold Bloom has got to be one of the greatest living Americans (greatest in the sense of intellect and daring even if you disagree with everything he says)
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lincoln, Washington, Clara Barton, MLK, Teddy Roosevelt...
Living Americans?
I think Michael Moore is quite ignorant of most facts myself. I'm willing to wager his movies have not changed a single mind, just gave him a chance to vent and pissed a ton of people off.
Just to put it out in the open, I'm no fan of (either) President Bush.
Collin Powell is pretty cool in my book.
Leonard Cohen's still alive too.
Living Americans?
I think Michael Moore is quite ignorant of most facts myself. I'm willing to wager his movies have not changed a single mind, just gave him a chance to vent and pissed a ton of people off.
Just to put it out in the open, I'm no fan of (either) President Bush.
Collin Powell is pretty cool in my book.
Leonard Cohen's still alive too.
Last edited by pseud on Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray Trivedi
Colin Powell has received much acclaim as the first "African-American" Secretary of State. It's necessary, however, to engage in a more careful analysis.
During the time of slavery in the U.S. south, certain African-Americans worked in the master's house. These jobs were usually much less arduous than those in the fields. Certain slaves were made assistants to the white slave driver -- the "overseer" -- who supervised the field workers. Sometimes there was not even a white slave driver, and a slave would function as the overseer himself. In order to prove their loyalty to the master, these African-American assistants or main overseers were often more cruel to the field hands than the white overseers. The position of ensuring that the master's work was properly done in the hot fields meant there existed an inherently adversarial relationship between these African-American overseers and the rest of the field workers. No one would argue that the fact that a small number of African-American slaves were in "supervisory" positions was an advance for the African-American race in this country.
Colin Powell has the skin of an African-American, but in 21st century America, that is not where his loyalty lies. Rather, he plays the role of the white man's global overseer.
A major role of U.S. diplomacy and arms, especially since WWII, has been to deter by threat of annihilation, and if necessary to mortally defeat, any challenge by "uppity" Third World peoples to this country's domineering role in the world.
For example, in the 1960's and early 1970's, U.S. armed forces killed millions of Vietnamese and other Southeast Asians who had never harmed or threatened a single American.
In the late 1970's and 1980's, U.S. forces or their proxies killed or enabled the killing of hundreds of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans and other Central Americans. Again, not a single one had ever harmed an American.
Colin Powell, in his jobs as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and now as Secretary of State, may be inclined to, and may well succeed in, allowing some other African-Americans to achieve successful careers in the U.S. armed forces or State Department. That may help a few isolated individuals in this country. But to the extent U.S. diplomacy and its armed forces continue to be used to crush the aspirations of Third World peoples for a life free of U.S./First World-engineered economic dependency, poverty and misery, having more men of color like Colin Powell -- or women of color, like Condoleezza Rice -- helping to do so just makes that many more lower-level overseers running around to the detriment of other people of color.
Colin Powell has shown he is certainly not averse to doing his master's bidding against other people of color: Powell served in Vietnam, and was reported to be involved in the cover up of the My Lai massacre. Colin Powell was allegedly neck-deep in the Iran-Contra scandal, a scheme which allowed weapons to flow to the Contras, who in the 1980's terrorized the Nicaraguan countryside with rape, torture and murder.
Nor is Powell reluctant to kill Third World civilians for the ill deeds of their government: in 1991, Colin Powell led the army which destroyed the civilian infrastructure of Iraq.
During the time of slavery in the U.S. south, certain African-Americans worked in the master's house. These jobs were usually much less arduous than those in the fields. Certain slaves were made assistants to the white slave driver -- the "overseer" -- who supervised the field workers. Sometimes there was not even a white slave driver, and a slave would function as the overseer himself. In order to prove their loyalty to the master, these African-American assistants or main overseers were often more cruel to the field hands than the white overseers. The position of ensuring that the master's work was properly done in the hot fields meant there existed an inherently adversarial relationship between these African-American overseers and the rest of the field workers. No one would argue that the fact that a small number of African-American slaves were in "supervisory" positions was an advance for the African-American race in this country.
Colin Powell has the skin of an African-American, but in 21st century America, that is not where his loyalty lies. Rather, he plays the role of the white man's global overseer.
A major role of U.S. diplomacy and arms, especially since WWII, has been to deter by threat of annihilation, and if necessary to mortally defeat, any challenge by "uppity" Third World peoples to this country's domineering role in the world.
For example, in the 1960's and early 1970's, U.S. armed forces killed millions of Vietnamese and other Southeast Asians who had never harmed or threatened a single American.
In the late 1970's and 1980's, U.S. forces or their proxies killed or enabled the killing of hundreds of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans and other Central Americans. Again, not a single one had ever harmed an American.
Colin Powell, in his jobs as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and now as Secretary of State, may be inclined to, and may well succeed in, allowing some other African-Americans to achieve successful careers in the U.S. armed forces or State Department. That may help a few isolated individuals in this country. But to the extent U.S. diplomacy and its armed forces continue to be used to crush the aspirations of Third World peoples for a life free of U.S./First World-engineered economic dependency, poverty and misery, having more men of color like Colin Powell -- or women of color, like Condoleezza Rice -- helping to do so just makes that many more lower-level overseers running around to the detriment of other people of color.
Colin Powell has shown he is certainly not averse to doing his master's bidding against other people of color: Powell served in Vietnam, and was reported to be involved in the cover up of the My Lai massacre. Colin Powell was allegedly neck-deep in the Iran-Contra scandal, a scheme which allowed weapons to flow to the Contras, who in the 1980's terrorized the Nicaraguan countryside with rape, torture and murder.
Nor is Powell reluctant to kill Third World civilians for the ill deeds of their government: in 1991, Colin Powell led the army which destroyed the civilian infrastructure of Iraq.
source?
Not that anything I could say would change your mind.
Not that anything I could say would change your mind.
"Don't treat your common sense like an umbrella. When you come into a room to philosophize, don't leave it outside, but bring it in with you." Wittgenstein
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:38 pm
- Location: The hills are my home, the mountains where I roam.
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Powell as HNIC, eh? There's a mental leap.
Are you saying these things to educate the Americans, or just to make yourself look intelligent? Please stop trying to educate Americans on America, particulary the few of us that are her representatives here. This is categorically unnecessary and pompous to boot. I thought the whole thread was pretentious to begin with, but I humored it because you seemed to intend us no ill-will. Now I see that this is not true, it's just another--perhaps more elaborate way--for someone who is neither citizen nor resident to take off on America.
I have been a courteous guest of the U.K. on this site for a while now, never once offering anything other than my sympathies, because frankly, your affairs are none of my business. I would ask the same common courtesy: butt out. You aren't teaching us anything just being indignant in a pool of open minds.
Incidentally, Martin Juther King Jr. beat and cheat on his wife. I'm not judging, but I do believe we know more about our own than you, in the same way that you are better connected to your own country. Kindly keep your opinions about mine similarly polite.
Cheers.
Are you saying these things to educate the Americans, or just to make yourself look intelligent? Please stop trying to educate Americans on America, particulary the few of us that are her representatives here. This is categorically unnecessary and pompous to boot. I thought the whole thread was pretentious to begin with, but I humored it because you seemed to intend us no ill-will. Now I see that this is not true, it's just another--perhaps more elaborate way--for someone who is neither citizen nor resident to take off on America.
I have been a courteous guest of the U.K. on this site for a while now, never once offering anything other than my sympathies, because frankly, your affairs are none of my business. I would ask the same common courtesy: butt out. You aren't teaching us anything just being indignant in a pool of open minds.
Incidentally, Martin Juther King Jr. beat and cheat on his wife. I'm not judging, but I do believe we know more about our own than you, in the same way that you are better connected to your own country. Kindly keep your opinions about mine similarly polite.
Cheers.
Why are you trying to perpetuate the racial divide Ray/ He No Say/ Gin Gan Goolie. No need to answer, because the truth is evident. You are racist. The fact that a black person can rise to a position of power or success is inconceivable to you without the controlling influence of a white majority.
You are typical of the back seat liberality that destroys, in its champagne haze of non-action, the progression of a working society.
You are typical of the back seat liberality that destroys, in its champagne haze of non-action, the progression of a working society.
Last edited by Minstrel on Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
I dunno Ray. This whole anti-Powell thing took off more after Bush appointed him. Perhaps there was always a case against Powell that just surfaced after Bush appointed him? Seems too contrived for political reasons to me...
Didn't mean for it to sound 'reprimanding' but character-assasination is easy. I just wondered what the specific source was, if there was one. One man's self-evident thesis is another man's tabloid.
As for whether your mind can be changed, that was over-board, my apologies. You seem opinionated, but well-read.
Didn't mean for it to sound 'reprimanding' but character-assasination is easy. I just wondered what the specific source was, if there was one. One man's self-evident thesis is another man's tabloid.
As for whether your mind can be changed, that was over-board, my apologies. You seem opinionated, but well-read.
"Don't treat your common sense like an umbrella. When you come into a room to philosophize, don't leave it outside, but bring it in with you." Wittgenstein
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:38 pm
- Location: The hills are my home, the mountains where I roam.
- Contact:
Hmm.
I'm trying, I really am.
Opinions, opinions. Bad words. Maledictions.
I hope I never turn out like you. I'd shoot myself.
Nope I can't.
They aren't your airbases, nor mine. And neither of us regulate the use of them. I'd be happy for the U.S. to withdraw entirely, and take all of our supplies and people with us, truly.
One more Americanism. I should've done this a long time back.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
I'll say no more to you.
I'm trying, I really am.
Opinions, opinions. Bad words. Maledictions.
I hope I never turn out like you. I'd shoot myself.
Nope I can't.
They aren't your airbases, nor mine. And neither of us regulate the use of them. I'd be happy for the U.S. to withdraw entirely, and take all of our supplies and people with us, truly.
One more Americanism. I should've done this a long time back.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
I'll say no more to you.
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Ray Trivedi
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Last edited by Ray Trivedi on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
That was Keith's point as well, only in reverse. You can't stereotype all Americans as Bushites and we can't stereotype all Brits as Blairites. They both are elected leaders, certainly someone must like them, but just like any leaders, they have their skeptics.Just because a Blairite government is in cahoots, don't think we all wanna kowtow to America
Neither you or Keith have the power to change the use of airbases in Europe, right? Or have I been sharing my poetry with demigods this whole time?
"Don't treat your common sense like an umbrella. When you come into a room to philosophize, don't leave it outside, but bring it in with you." Wittgenstein